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Old 11-13-2008, 08:46 PM   #16
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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Originally Posted by Marvin Gardens View Post

It just seems weird to me to have a small piece of copper pushing against a 14 gage wire and expecting 20 amps to go through that and survive.

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If you have 20 amps going through the 14 ga. wire you probably have other problems too. You can always fix it using insurance company money after the fire is out.

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Old 11-13-2008, 09:27 PM   #17
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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If you have 20 amps going through the 14 ga. wire you probably have other problems too. You can always fix it using insurance company money after the fire is out.
I see that all the time. Home remodels.

I don't design the systems, I just fix em when the go bad.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:36 AM   #18
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


I never never never use the stabs in the back of a device, unless they're the screw-clamp type found in GFCI receptacles. That's because I have had them pop out or feel so loose it is scary.

But...
Wago walnuts and similar wiring connectors aren't the same thing as the stabs in a device. They make very solid contact in my opinion, and there's nothing wrong with them.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:39 AM   #19
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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I never never never use the stabs in the back of a device, unless they're the screw-clamp type found in GFCI receptacles. That's because I have had them pop out or feel so loose it is scary.

But...
Wago walnuts and similar wiring connectors aren't the same thing as the stabs in a device. They make very solid contact in my opinion, and there's nothing wrong with them.
I like the screw in connectors also. Much more surface area to connect to and a much more solid connection.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:54 AM   #20
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


why is it that every couple of months someone brings this up? I have no problem using them since if they are installed correctly they work just fine. It is when someone installed them wrong that there are fires.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:38 AM   #21
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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why is it that every couple of months someone brings this up? I have no problem using them since if they are installed correctly they work just fine. It is when someone installed them wrong that there are fires.
What I find interesting is that you can't push in 12 gage wire since they are designed for 14 gage. And 20 amp receptacles don't have push in models.

This tells me several things.

Push in will not handle more than about 15 amps.

The manufacturers were concerned enough about this that they made them so that no one could use 12 gage wire on these. I would have to assume that their tests showed that the connection would fail if more than 15 amps was used.

Push in is only allowed in light residential buildings from what the inspector tells me. My buddy who is a commercial inspector cringes when I ask him about push in receptacles. He says they are not allowed in commercial or multi residential buildings.

One of my rentals kept tripping breakers on one circuit. I replaced the breaker and same thing. It only had one light and 3 plugs. The only thing on the circuit was a TV, stereo, and video games. Nothing else.

I finally took apart the receptacles and they were all pushin type. I put the wire on the screws using the same receptacles and problem went away.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:42 AM   #22
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


I think pudge was refering to the push in connectors, NOT backstabs on a receptacle.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:57 AM   #23
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


Marvin, why do you keep referring to the back-stab receptacles? The thread is about the push-in wire connectors. Back-stab receptacles are similar only in that you push the wire in. That's where the similarity ends. The Wagos provide a much better grip on the wire.

And, BTW, back-stab receptacles manufactured since 1995 can only accept #14. That explains why you can't jam a #12 in there.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:25 AM   #24
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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Push in is only allowed in light residential buildings
I'm not sure if you are on the same page with us and what the heck is a "light residential building"....?????

BTW if your going to talk about your inspector friends telling you about these places where things aren't allowed there is always a code section that mandates this...otherwise it is probably hearsay. I've been in this industry a long time and I have never heard substantiation to most of your statements. I believe you might be suffering from paranoia.....
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:28 AM   #25
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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Marvin, why do you keep referring to the back-stab receptacles? The thread is about the push-in wire connectors. Back-stab receptacles are similar only in that you push the wire in. That's where the similarity ends. The Wagos provide a much better grip on the wire.

And, BTW, back-stab receptacles manufactured since 1995 can only accept #14. That explains why you can't jam a #12 in there.
Sorry,,, misread the OP. I just reread it and missed his issue all together....my bad.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:33 AM   #26
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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I'm not sure if you are on the same page with us and what the heck is a "light residential building"....?????

BTW if your going to talk about your inspector friends telling you about these places where things aren't allowed there is always a code section that mandates this...otherwise it is probably hearsay. I've been in this industry a long time and I have never heard substantiation to most of your statements. I believe you might be suffering from paranoia.....
Paranoia has served me well over the years.

I tend to over build everything.

Too often I have seen the results of "minimal" standards. My 401k is currently the results of "minimal" standards.

My neighbors house and all his problems is the result of "minimal" standards. It is all code for sure but he is having a lot of problems. Thankfully he has a homeowners warranty and is making the contractor fix all the "minimal" standards.

Better to over build than to save money and meet the bare minimums.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:38 AM   #27
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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What I find interesting is that you can't push in 12 gage wire since they are designed for 14 gage. And 20 amp receptacles don't have push in models.

This tells me several things.

Push in will not handle more than about 15 amps.
You are mistaken again....rather than go into the reason they now only allow
14 awg copper to be back stabbed per ul listing... think about the problems they had with aluminum romex wiring in the 60's and 70's. If it doesn't come to your understanding I will explain.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:44 AM   #28
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


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You are mistaken again....rather than go into the reason they now only allow
14 awg copper to be back stabbed per ul listing... think about the problems they had with aluminum romex wiring in the 60's and 70's. If it doesn't come to your understanding I will explain.
I know about the aluminum wire in that time period. Called a lot of people dead when their homes caught on fire. The ones that survived had severe burns and no amount of morphine could ease their pain.

There are smells you never forget and burnt flesh is one of them.

There are sounds you never forget and the sound of severely burned people screaming is one of them.

My brother in law almost died when his home caught in fire. He had to kick out a wall with his bare feet to get out.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:52 AM   #29
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


I think I'll stop trying to get you to think in a professional manner you will just have live with your beliefs.......
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Old 11-16-2008, 03:07 PM   #30
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What do you think of the push in connectors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Gardens View Post
What I find interesting is that you can't push in 12 gage wire since they are designed for 14 gage. And 20 amp receptacles don't have push in models.

This tells me several things.

Push in will not handle more than about 15 amps.

The manufacturers were concerned enough about this that they made them so that no one could use 12 gage wire on these. I would have to assume that their tests showed that the connection would fail if more than 15 amps was used.

Push in is only allowed in light residential buildings from what the inspector tells me. My buddy who is a commercial inspector cringes when I ask him about push in receptacles. He says they are not allowed in commercial or multi residential buildings.

One of my rentals kept tripping breakers on one circuit. I replaced the breaker and same thing. It only had one light and 3 plugs. The only thing on the circuit was a TV, stereo, and video games. Nothing else.

I finally took apart the receptacles and they were all pushin type. I put the wire on the screws using the same receptacles and problem went away.
No the reason that you can't use #12 on those is because if you install it with #12 then later down the line someone decides to use the release and release the wire and use #14 uh-oh the wire doesn't stay in. This is probably what happened when everybody started saying aluminum wiring is unsafe. Aluminum wiring itself is not unsafe what is unsafe is the way it was installed and possibly overloaded due to using too big of a fuse or breaker. Second of all they are UL listed. Third of all I think the reason that so many of the back stabs failed is because they were used with aluminum wire that was installed incorrectly such as not using any anti oxidant. Like I said about the push in connectors they are not a problem unless installed incorrectly.


Last edited by Pudge565; 11-16-2008 at 03:15 PM.
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