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-   -   what is this, and can I just patch over it? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/what-can-i-just-patch-over-11771/)

joeyboy 09-23-2007 02:04 PM

what is this, and can I just patch over it?
 
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There's this solid outlet faceplate in my kitchen, so I opened it expecting another botched speaker wire outlet (they made lots of these lol!) and instead saw electrical wiring. Got some questions here...

1) Since this isn't a needed opening, can I just spackle over it and close it off? <I'm guessing no, I imagine this connection should've been made above the ceiling so it could be accessed and that I'll need to leave access to be code compliant and all >

2) If I can't close it off, any suggestions on what to do with it? I was thinking just make an outlet there, but there's already one like 1ft away on the wall, so that's just pointless. I could always put a blank faceplate back up, but that just looks so... I dunno, it just looks to me like something that was done wrong and patched with a plate instead of spackle lol!

joeyboy 09-23-2007 02:05 PM

(in case that pic isn't clear enough, there's 1 thick romex coming into the box and 2 leaving it on the other side of the box, seems just like a junction or whatever it's called in electrical stuff, but I don't see why it'd need a hole in the wall :eek: )

darren 09-23-2007 02:10 PM

Why it is there no one may never know but that looks like a junction box. if the wires are live and feeding additional plugs or switches you can not cover it up. You will have to leave that opening accesible.

joeyboy 09-23-2007 03:40 PM

That's what I figured, guess I was hoping I'd be wrong lol!!!! DAMNIT! Why would they make a junction there? Is there any valid reasons to not do that in the attic? A lot of the wiring seems like it was done by someone who didn't have a clue (as witnessed by someone else who doesn't have a clue :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: . But honestly, when I'm trying to swap out power outlets, switches, etc, I go to turn off a fuse, and 1 fuse will be connecting things that just don't make sense, like 2 outlets in my bedroom are on the same fuse as the light above the garage, the rest of the garage is on 2 or 3 different ones depending which outlet! Add to that that I've seen scorch marks on some of the power outlets' <that were installed upside down!> screw terminals, and I think in my amateur-ness I can spot another amateur!)

gregzoll 09-23-2007 04:29 PM

Since it appears to be an older house, it would make sense to split the house in separate segments. My house had originally 4 fuses, and from there the house was split into four sections. As for the wall plate, you can get a flat plate and try to blend it into the existing wall, but make sure that it can be easily found if needed to fix a problem on that circuit.

As for the scorch marks, that is usually signs of circuit overload.

ron schenker 09-23-2007 05:04 PM

Get a nicer coverplate for it, a custom one with a picture of a Harley or skull and crossbones...cooool

joed 09-23-2007 09:29 PM

What's on the other side of the wall? You could cut in a new old work box on the opposite wall and move the wires to the new box with a cover. Then this hole can be covered over.

skymaster 09-23-2007 10:36 PM

Joeyboy: Never ASS/U/ME. a guess why, maybe there was an outlet there originally, removed it and walla a junction box. Outlets "upside down a shure sign of an amateur" Oh No I normally install them that way for SAFETY.
When a plug is in an outler and NOT fully seated an object can fall and BRIDGE BOTH CONTACTS causing a short,trip breaker and god forbid maybe a fire. Placing an outlet UPSIDE DOWN causes a falling object to hit the GROUND first and knocking that object AWAY FROM THE PLUG NOT CAUSING A TRIP and way less likely a fire.:yes::yes::thumbsup:.

Stubbie 09-23-2007 11:01 PM

I like Joes idea if it works. Being the inquisitive type I would kinda like to investigate a tad as to what gives. I'm thinking someone had a receptacle there and didn't want it at that location but who knows? I would guess that someone is just passing power on from an unwanted location to the other wanted location. Maybe that close by receptacle is the new location?

Stubbie

skymaster 09-23-2007 11:19 PM

Stubbie: that darn JOE stole OUR idea :laughing: :yes: :thumbup:

joeyboy 09-24-2007 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joed (Post 64429)
What's on the other side of the wall? You could cut in a new old work box on the opposite wall and move the wires to the new box with a cover. Then this hole can be covered over.

hmmm, I think there's a power outlet on the other side of that wall in the office, but will double check :thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by skymaster (Post 64437)
Joeyboy: Never ASS/U/ME. a guess why, maybe there was an outlet there originally, removed it and walla a junction box. Outlets "upside down a shure sign of an amateur" Oh No I normally install them that way for SAFETY.
When a plug is in an outler and NOT fully seated an object can fall and BRIDGE BOTH CONTACTS causing a short,trip breaker and god forbid maybe a fire. Placing an outlet UPSIDE DOWN causes a falling object to hit the GROUND first and knocking that object AWAY FROM THE PLUG NOT CAUSING A TRIP and way less likely a fire.:yes::yes::thumbsup:.

Aha! I see, but then wouldn't you put them all that way? I hadn't thought of the fire / shock aspect, but what I did know is that someone put in a bunch one way, and a bunch the other way. All I could figure is that either they:
- weren't paying much attention and things just got screwed into boxes based on the easiest way to bend the wires into the box
- someone wanted them that way for a reason (I was thinking maybe pesonal taste or something...), but if that was the case, I figured they'd swap them all that way, kinda weird to have only some upside down!

(edit - after posting I was noticing some of my bedroom outlets are still upside down, but then I noticed that the majority of stuff I have plugged into these outlets are *not* even grounded so it wouldn't matter. Lamps, fans, etc, the only things with grounds in my bedroom are my PC/home theater. When you do them upside down, do you swap a whole house over, or just whatever you worked on? Doesn't the uniformity issue bother you if you don't have them all the same?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie (Post 64439)
I like Joes idea if it works. Being the inquisitive type I would kinda like to investigate a tad as to what gives. I'm thinking someone had a receptacle there and didn't want it at that location but who knows? I would guess that someone is just passing power on from an unwanted location to the other wanted location. Maybe that close by receptacle is the new location?

Stubbie

I don't think it is as the 2 romex it splits to both seem to go upwards and the other outlet is literally 1 foot away, although I didn't try to trace the wires much at all so it could just go up a few inches and through/behind the beam to that outlet.

Andy in ATL 09-24-2007 04:29 PM

[quote=skymaster;6443Outlets "upside down a shure sign of an amateur" Oh No I normally install them that way for SAFETY.
When a plug is in an outler and NOT fully seated an object can fall and BRIDGE BOTH CONTACTS causing a short,trip breaker and god forbid maybe a fire. Placing an outlet UPSIDE DOWN causes a falling object to hit the GROUND first and knocking that object AWAY FROM THE PLUG NOT CAUSING A TRIP and way less likely a fire.:yes::yes:.[/quote]

Boy,that sounds good in theory...In many years in this trade I've yet to see proof of this. I've installed quadrillions?!?:huh: ground down and trillions?!?:huh: ground up, whatever the customer or specs call for.

joeyboy 09-24-2007 05:23 PM

what kind of specs would call for upside down? Just curious

joed 09-24-2007 06:00 PM

Ground up or down is a never ending debate. The only thing that is common practice but not code, is to put switched receptacles upside down compared the others in the house.

joeyboy 09-24-2007 06:25 PM

how 'common practice' is that? I hate having some one way, some another way, just looks weird to me. I know you'll say do whatever you like best, but I'm redoing most of the outlets in the house, and I'm young and highly doubt I'll stay here for more than a couple years, so I don't want to go against a strong common practice when doing things like this...


(btw, in my house like I said some are upside down and some aren't, but the switching thing isn't a factor, or teh only factor, because I have 2 outlets on the same switch, one's upside down the other isn't.. ahh!!!!)


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