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Old 03-15-2013, 11:24 PM   #16
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by Glennsparky View Post
No holes in the middle third of the length, from support to support.
Is that your opinion or an actual rule?

Certainly there is more stress in the middle of a beam than on the ends and it is preferable to put a hole nearer the end, but a hole in the center of a beam isn't going to have a significant effect on it's strength.

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Old 03-16-2013, 06:39 AM   #17
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by Toller View Post
Is that your opinion or an actual rule?

Certainly there is more stress in the middle of a beam than on the ends and it is preferable to put a hole nearer the end, but a hole in the center of a beam isn't going to have a significant effect on it's strength.
http://www22.pair.com/routt/building...s/notching.pdf
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:27 PM   #18
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
If I am reading it correctly, there are no notches in the middle third, but no prohibition on holes.
So unless I am missing something, you are agreeing with me?
I am surprised notches are allowed at all.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:53 PM   #19
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by Toller View Post
If I am reading it correctly, there are no notches in the middle third, but no prohibition on holes.
So unless I am missing something, you are agreeing with me?
I am surprised notches are allowed at all.
You cant have holes in the middle third.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:53 PM   #20
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
You cant have holes in the middle third.
I'm missing it.

"R502.8 Drilling and notching.
Structural floor members shall not be cut, bored or notched in excess of the limitations specified in this section. See Figure R502.8.

R502.8.1 Sawn lumber.
Notches in solid lumber joists, rafters and beams shall not exceed one-sixth of the depth of the member, shall not be longer than one-third of the depth of the member and shall not be located in the middle one-third of the span. Notches at the ends of the member shall not exceed one-fourth the depth of the member. The tension side of members 4 inches (102 mm) or greater in nominal thickness shall not be notched except at the ends of the members. The diameter of holes bored or cut into members shall not exceed one-third the depth of the member. Holes shall not be closer than 2 inches (51 mm) to the top or bottom of the member, or to any other hole located in the member. Where the member is also notched, the hole shall not be closer than 2 inches (51 mm) to the notch."

Is it in this, or somewhere else?

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Old 03-17-2013, 03:56 AM   #21
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What is the best way to run wires here?


I think any notch is a really bad idea, especially if it's in the bottom of a joist, and in the middle of the span. Definitely would not do it, code or not.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:13 AM   #22
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by Red Squirrel
I think any notch is a really bad idea, especially if it's in the bottom of a joist, and in the middle of the span. Definitely would not do it, code or not.
I agree. I don't mind drilling holes, but notching seems like it could cause the joists to lose a lot of integrity. Maybe that's just me being OCD...
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:58 PM   #23
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by Toller View Post
I'm missing it.

"R502.8 Drilling and notching.
Structural floor members shall not be cut, bored or notched in excess of the limitations specified in this section. See Figure R502.8.

R502.8.1 Sawn lumber.
Notches in solid lumber joists, rafters and beams shall not exceed one-sixth of the depth of the member, shall not be longer than one-third of the depth of the member and shall not be located in the middle one-third of the span. Notches at the ends of the member shall not exceed one-fourth the depth of the member. The tension side of members 4 inches (102 mm) or greater in nominal thickness shall not be notched except at the ends of the members. The diameter of holes bored or cut into members shall not exceed one-third the depth of the member. Holes shall not be closer than 2 inches (51 mm) to the top or bottom of the member, or to any other hole located in the member. Where the member is also notched, the hole shall not be closer than 2 inches (51 mm) to the notch."

Is it in this, or somewhere else?

You need the pic to see what they are talking about.......and a bored hole is the same as a drilled hole.....

No holes are notches in the middle 3rd.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:44 PM   #24
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
You need the pic to see what they are talking about.......and a bored hole is the same as a drilled hole.....

No holes are notches in the middle 3rd.
Sure, a hole is a hole; but its not a notch.
It says no notches in the center third. But it doesn't prohibit holes.

But maybe I am confused. In electrical talk is a notch the same as a hole? Normally a notch is removing material from the top or bottom, while a hole is removing material from the middle while not disturbing the top or bottom. But you guys seem to be saying they are the same.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:52 PM   #25
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by Toller View Post
Sure, a hole is a hole; but its not a notch.
It says no notches in the center third. But it doesn't prohibit holes.

But maybe I am confused. In electrical talk is a notch the same as a hole? Normally a notch is removing material from the top or bottom, while a hole is removing material from the middle while not disturbing the top or bottom. But you guys seem to be saying they are the same.
We are not saying they are the same, you can't have notches or holes in the middle third.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:24 PM   #26
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What is the best way to run wires here?


Where does it say that? The reference ONLY states no notches in the middle third. It does not state no holes in the middle third.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:35 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by williswires View Post
Where does it say that? The reference ONLY states no notches in the middle third. It does not state no holes in the middle third.
I think you could be correct, Im pretty sure Connecticut treats a hole as a notch and disallows any drilling in the middle third, but in any case, there seems to be a lot of debate on whether or not a bored hole is to be treated as a notch.

BUT as it is worded, it should be accepted. or reworded in the IRC if thats not what they meant...
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:58 PM   #28
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What is the best way to run wires here?


That figures - a local requirement. Another standard might also not allow a jole in the middle third, but I just went by the link posted.

However, I can understand the difference between having a notch (which can only be made on an edge - if not, then it is a hole) and having a hole (which can't be made at an edge - then it would be a notch ) in the middle third.

The notch gives the member a head start for breaking at the weak point of the notch on the edge.

But since the hole has to be 2" away from the edge it leaves more integrity to the strength of the member.

...at least that how I rationalize the differing restrictions!
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:11 PM   #29
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by williswires View Post
Where does it say that? The reference ONLY states no notches in the middle third. It does not state no holes in the middle third.
THANK YOU!
I was beginning to wonder if I was getting senile.

Since all the strength is in the top and bottom, notching is horribly weakening; while a hole does very little. I couldn't imagine why they would care about holes in the middle third.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:07 AM   #30
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What is the best way to run wires here?


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Originally Posted by Toller View Post
I couldn't imagine why they would care about holes in the middle third.
I was taught it was never allowed, just one of those things, that's why it's so important to self educate yourself in actual codes, not by what your co-worker or employer says... we all fall victim of this at some point in our lives, glad I learned something myself... i've looked at that IRC section before too, I just read what I wanted it to say. Or believed what it should say.

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