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Old 01-30-2014, 03:28 AM   #16
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Well House 110v outlet needed


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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
So if I ran it in series I could run two 120v lamp sockets by tying into the black wire put the two sockets in series and run the other end to the white. This would be for the situation as it stands now with the 2 wire/ground. What would happen if one of the lamps blew, I guess it would just toast the other one?
NO !

If they are wired in series, across two hots (no neutral),
Then if one lamp blew, then the other would simply stop working !

The only way for the other lamp to blow out,
would be if one lamp shorted out (very unlikely).


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Old 01-30-2014, 10:14 AM   #17
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Well House 110v outlet needed


If the OP doesn't know what would happen if one of two series wired lights burned out, should he really be doing this kind of electrical work? ....just saying
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:42 AM   #18
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Well House 110v outlet needed


Not to break up the fun but he only has 30 feet to run to his rejuvenated pump house. Why on earth would you do some crazy resourceful series wiring of 120 volt bulbs on a 240 volt source that doesn't have a neutral.

If cost is such a big issue here then I would just do as rjniles suggested or if by chance the existing wiring is in conduit just pull in new wire using the old.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:56 AM   #19
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Well House 110v outlet needed


The discussion of using a 240 volt lamp or using 2 120 volt lamps in series is likely moot. It is not compliant to use voltages above 120 for luminaries (Lights) in residential units. NEC 210.6 (A) (1).

Some might argue that the well house is not part of the residential unit.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:04 AM   #20
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Well House 110v outlet needed


Seriously, the easiest and most robust way to add a light would be to install a linear fluorescent luminaire with a universal voltage ballast. Label the luminaire indicating that a 120V ballast can not be used.

Despite what I suggested earlier, Installing a non-standard (in a residential setting) higher voltage lamp or wiring 120V devices in series, would be asking for trouble. Some day, someone will screw in a 120V lamp. Will it be incandescent and just get bright and then blow out, or will it be something else like an LED or CFL and make smoke? I am not sure what a poor power factor CFL or LED would do in series with another one, but I am sure that they are not tested for that.

OP, you wrote that you want the light for the coldest days. What has the temperature got to do with it? I know that the coldest days tend to be some of the darkest ones as well. Typical modern electronic ballasts will strike down to -20 F if you stick with typical (32 W nominal) lamps. (Stay away from low-power, energy saving lamps.) To go lower temperature, you need a ballast for refrigeration applications. Here is a link for GE instant-start ballasts that is informative. In your application, instant-start or program-start will probably not make any difference. The latter is good for when the lamp is turned on and off frequently.

http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...tant_Start.pdf
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:05 AM   #21
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Well House 110v outlet needed


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The discussion of using a 240 volt lamp or using 2 120 volt lamps in series is likely moot. It is not compliant to use voltages above 120 for luminaries (Lights) in residential units. NEC 210.6 (A) (1).
I wondered about that.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:14 AM   #22
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Well House 110v outlet needed


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Originally Posted by ionized View Post
Seriously, the easiest and most robust way to add a light would be to install a linear fluorescent luminaire with a universal voltage ballast. Label the luminaire indicating that a 120V ballast can not be used.

Despite what I suggested earlier, Installing a non-standard (in a residential setting) higher voltage lamp or wiring 120V devices in series, would be asking for trouble. Some day, someone will screw in a 120V lamp. Will it be incandescent and just get bright and then blow out, or will it be something else like an LED or CFL and make smoke? I am not sure what a poor power factor CFL or LED would do in series with another one, but I am sure that they are not tested for that.

OP, you wrote that you want the light for the coldest days. What has the temperature got to do with it? I know that the coldest days tend to be some of the darkest ones as well. Typical modern electronic ballasts will strike down to -20 F if you stick with typical (32 W nominal) lamps. (Stay away from low-power, energy saving lamps.) To go lower temperature, you need a ballast for refrigeration applications. Here is a link for GE instant-start ballasts that is informative. In your application, instant-start or program-start will probably not make any difference. The latter is good for when the lamp is turned on and off frequently.

http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWe...tant_Start.pdf

I assumed (maybe in error) the poster wants to use an incandescent lamp to provide some heat for freeze protection.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:19 AM   #23
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Well House 110v outlet needed


I'm thinking the OP may want the light for heat. I could be wrong
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:40 PM   #24
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Well House 110v outlet needed


Not for nothing, but how often would one need illumination within a relatively dead space such as a wellhouse? Ever hear of a flashlight? I'd go with a battery operated fixture, 2 for 9.99 at Target and be done with it. Trenching, conduit, subpanels, pullouts,.. geez...
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Old 01-30-2014, 09:54 PM   #25
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Well House 110v outlet needed


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Not for nothing, but how often would one need illumination within a relatively dead space such as a wellhouse? Ever hear of a flashlight? I'd go with a battery operated fixture, 2 for 9.99 at Target and be done with it. Trenching, conduit, subpanels, pullouts,.. geez...
You must work for target ... I do know where you can find a dead space ...
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:41 PM   #26
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Well House 110v outlet needed


Everyone has helped me quite the bit. I thank you all.
After looking at all of the post and learning quite a bit I think I now know what I will do.
I am going to pull out the old 3 wire and run a new 3 wire with ground to the pump house and install a sub panel.
At this sub panel I will have 2 power leads going to the sub-panel 110 each branch then I will have a white lead to neutral bar (inside sub-panel) and the ground lead going to the ground bar(inside sub-panel). I will then run a ground lead from the ground bar(inside sub-panel) to the well head casing. From inside this sub-panel I will install (my old 20amp double pole breaker) 220v for the pump power (2 black leads). I will install a small 10amp breaker in the subpanel for the 110v outlet needed. I will probably include 2 light switches one for an internal light (for heat, some 2 degree days) and one for external light on this 10 amp circuit. I will then install a new 30amp GFCI breaker at the panel on pole to power the sub-panel.
Does that sound about right?
I guess I need a recommendation on wire size from pole panel to the pump sub-panel. I will be running it in PVC for about 30 feet.
Once again thanks everyone for your insight and recommendations and pointing out some of my really bad mistakes.
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Old 01-31-2014, 06:21 AM   #27
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Well House 110v outlet needed


I would not instal a GFCI main breaker in the sub; if it trips your pump is out.

Here is some minimum sizing:

30 amp 2 pole breaker in the main panel.

4 runs of #10 THWN in conduit to the subpanel (Conduit must be continuous)

You do not need a breaker in the sub panel. Use a 4 space main lug panel (under $20 at a home center). Buy a separate ground bar kit.

20 amp 2 pole breaker for the pump with #12 cable

15 amp GFCI breaker for the lights/receptacles with #14 cable (10 amp breakers are rare).

Grounds and neutrals kept separated.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:06 AM   #28
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Well House 110v outlet needed


Would a light bulb be sufficient to prevent freezing? I'm thinking automatic heat tracing on all exposed pipes... Then install a standard 15a breaker for the outlet and lights and use a GFCI receptacle. The lights don't need GFCI protection anyway.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:44 PM   #29
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Thanks for the thought on the heat trace, I might consider this but I also have a 44 gallon pressure tank (22"x36") for the well. The enclosed pump house is a 4'x4'x4' area so it isn't so big a 100 watt bulb wouldn't keep the area warm. I estimate an R-12 on my foam board insulation, and think I am pretty weather tight on the construction.
Now you have got me thinking is there some way I could put an temperature sensor on the light circuit?
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:00 AM   #30
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I like your plan and this will be the path I take. Thanks for the information on everything. Stubbie too. I just need for some warmer temps now so that I can dig up a trench.

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