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Old 01-06-2010, 10:16 PM   #31
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Warm tiles 240v thermostat


Thanks for the info will look into the 120v, that seems to be the better option all around. Will let everyone know if it works or not when the project is done.

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Old 01-06-2010, 10:21 PM   #32
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My system is low volt, approx 330' of wire & I think used 6a at 120v
They should list the amps used for the different sizes
I used 15a circuit that also runs the tub pump (small load)
Both loads on Max at same time will not trip the breaker

I actually ran 12-2 in case I need to upgrade to a 20a breaker
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertone View Post
For the rest of the people that really want to help I purchased the 240v warm tiles system for my basement but have not installed it yet and was thinking about going to the 120v. I have wired outlets before. The homeowner before has an 120v outlet coming from the junction box that also goes to the dryer. Not sure if it is legal or not but the home inspector never said anything to me about it. I can still return the 240v for the 120v, I was just asking it is was possible to run two 120v to make one 240v but obviously it is not according to the feedback I have receive. I would like to thank you all for the positive and negative feedbacks.


Simply put, the problem with your situation is that:
  • you are not providing the least bit of specific information about what you are trying to do. What size is your install? What load will your install need to be designed for? What room are you installing in (bathrooms have different GFCI requirements than other rooms)?
  • by your answers and comments, you have shown that you are not competent to be doing this work. It requires more than being able to wire a receptacle.
  • you have also shown that you have no interest in following the code requirements for your new install, or correcting possible electrical hazards that already exist
PLEASE follow the wise advice of the members of this forum and hire a professional.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:46 PM   #34
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Warm tiles 240v thermostat


I thought I was done with this already, as far as not taking advice Willis you are dead wrong about quite a few things. If you really want to know: Warm Tiles DFT 2078 with 240v thermostat. According to the home inspector everything was up to code. The warm tiles will be going into a basement bathroom. For your info there are no electrical hazards and that is the reason I am here to prevent one, professional.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:41 AM   #35
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Warm tiles 240v thermostat


Warm Tiles DFT 2078 = 4.0 Amps@240 Volts = 960 watts.

If you have not purchased this yet, consider using

DFT 1079 (8.5 Amps@120 Volts = 1020 watts)
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:58 AM   #36
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You are getting some very good advice here. Take it or not, good luck!
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:00 AM   #37
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I cannot speak on the experience level or training of your home inspector, but even tho nothing was noted as wrong with the wires off the dryer circuit does not make it correct. It could have just been missed or the inspector did not know what they were dealing with.
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertone View Post
Warm Tiles DFT 2078 with 240v thermostat.
Since the install is for a basement bathroom, per Warm Tiles this requires "Alternate" spacing requirements for the cable installation. This means your DFT2078 cable is only meant for a heated area of 55-63 square feet. (NOTE: the cable cannot be cut or shortened for a smaller area, or placed closer together to make it fit.)

Hopefully that is your square foot of installation.

Certainly the 120V kit would be easier.

Quote:
According to the home inspector everything was up to code.
Don't be so sure. Home inspectors are frequently uneducated in the electrical code. If you have a 240V dryer circuit, fed from a 2-pole circuit breaker, having another set of wires fed from it for another use, and you are going to add yet another, you have code violations and safety hazards.

Quote:
The warm tiles will be going into a basement bathroom.
You DO need to have a GFCI installed to serve this circuit, separate from the built-in T-stat ground fault protection. This is because there are different types of ground fault protection.

Protection described as "ground-fault protection for equipment", triggers at 30mA ground fault current. This is what is built in to your t-stat.

The NEC defines a GFCI as:


Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI).
A device intended

for the protection of personnel that functions to deenergize
a circuit or portion thereof within an established
period of time when a current to ground exceeds the values
established for a Class A device.



FPN: Class A ground-fault circuit interrupters trip when the
current to ground has a value in the range of 4 mA to 6 mA.
For further information, see UL 943,


Standard for Ground-
Fault Circuit Interrupters.


A Class A GFCI device triggers at 4mA-6mA ground fault current, which is protection for people. This is the class found in GFCI receptacles and circuit breakers. If you install the Warm Tiles in a bathroom, per 2005 NEC 424.44(G) you need GFCI protection for personnel, so the built-in GF protection is not good enough.

From 2005 NEC, 424.44(G): (G) Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Groundfaultcircuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided for cables installed in electrically heated floors of bathrooms and in hydromassage bathtub locations.



This is why Warm Tiles has notes and warnings throughout their documents to install the t-stat/controller on a GFCI circuit per the NEC for bathroom installs.




Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertone View Post
For your info there are no electrical hazards

And you know this because......?


Quote:
that is the reason I am here to prevent one

...only if you open up your mind and allow good advice inside.

Quote:
professional

...ahhh, now we're getting somewhere. That's the first step - accepting that others might be able to put you on the right path.

We are here to help.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williswires View Post
You DO need to have a GFCI installed to serve this circuit, separate from the built-in T-stat ground fault protection. This is because there are different types of ground fault protection.

Protection described as "ground-fault protection for equipment", triggers at 30mA ground fault current. This is what is built in to your t-stat.



I can't speak for Warm Tiles but we only install 5mA tstats with our line voltage floor warming systems. I didn't know that floor warming tstats could be sold with 30mA trips. That's asking for trouble as they hard market them to DIY HO's ...such as the one who started this thread.

We installed gutter melting in a condo complex and the electrician used GFCI breakers. 12 of the 42 units had nuisance trips and they ended up having to replace them all with GFEP's. Standard GFCI breakers/65.00...GFEP Breakers/$350 x 42 ! Ouch.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warmsmeallup View Post



I can't speak for Warm Tiles but we only install 5mA tstats with our line voltage floor warming systems. I didn't know that floor warming tstats could be sold with 30mA trips. That's asking for trouble as they hard market them to DIY HO's ...such as the one who started this thread.

We installed gutter melting in a condo complex and the electrician used GFCI breakers. 12 of the 42 units had nuisance trips and they ended up having to replace them all with GFEP's. Standard GFCI breakers/65.00...GFEP Breakers/$350 x 42 ! Ouch.
Did the GFEBs solve all of the problems? What type to t-stats did the gutter melters have?
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryh3 View Post
Did the GFEBs solve all of the problems? What type to t-stats did the gutter melters have?
Yes the GFEP's did and we used adjustable temperature/moisture sensors for activation.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:07 PM   #42
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Warm tiles 240v thermostat


Well.....this is interesting
I just had a "lights on moment"
Went & checked...my radiant floor heat is on a GFCI protected circuit
I'd have to check to see if that was the MFG instructions

Over 4 years now - it has never tripped

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