Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-06-2011, 04:22 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 115
Share |
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


https://picasaweb.google.com/1046233...79652873118482
This image is an example of an outlet that my journeyman electrician wired in my home during a rewiring job. Of course, as he is the journeyman, I wasn't able to wire an outlet / do any of the work (b/c I might screw it up lol) .. look at the wires, coming off he terminals. I had to re-do nearly everything he wired.
Then, I got another electrician who installed a 60 amp breaker for my AC (in the new panel), which as we all know, is #10 wire. Hmm.. anyone wanna bet whether I'll burn the wire or trash the A/C first?
To top it off, the inspector from St. Louis county didn't even catch this simple, stupid mistake and passed the new electric panel and home rewiring.

They all say pulling permits for work makes jobs safer. After this experience, it only cements my thoughts that permits o nothing but add cost to the homeowner, especially when the homeowner is well qualified to do the work. The pic may look a little rough.. I have hi-res shots, but had to modify them so the forum would accept the size of it...

your thoughts?
Attached Images
 


Last edited by brokenhammer; 04-06-2011 at 10:35 PM.
brokenhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 04:27 PM   #2
I=E/R
 
a7ecorsair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,052
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Picture is too fuzzy.

a7ecorsair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 04:30 PM   #3
Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,139
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhammer View Post
Then, I got another electrician who installed a 60 amp breaker for my AC (in the new panel), which as we all know, is #10 wire. Hmm.. anyone wanna bet whether I'll burn the wire or trash the A/C first?
So your saying he put #10 on a 60A breaker, I would say that could be a very legal and safe install. Obviously you don't know why he did that so don't come on here saying he is a bad electrician. Maybe call him and he will explain why he did that.

The plug looks bad but not illegal, i would never wire it like that. The inspector would not take the plugs off to see how there wired.

Why don't you call your electrician and tell him your issues.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 04:38 PM   #4
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,801
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Quote:
Originally Posted by darren View Post
So your saying he put #10 on a 60A breaker, I would say that could be a very legal and safe install.
Considering this is for an A/C unit I completely agree.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 05:00 PM   #5
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,831
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Considering this is for an A/C unit I completely agree.
Ditto.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 07:20 PM   #6
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,023
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Considering this is for an A/C unit I completely agree.
Same here. My outside disco is a 50 amp, with #10 servicing it from the main. Of course, it is protected by a dual 20 amp in the main.
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 07:22 PM   #7
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,023
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Was this before or after you messed with his work? If after, then you deserve to have the inspector Red Flag for messing with the Electricians work. Home owners not knowing what they are doing, and making changes to Electrical will always guarantee a nice fire some time down the road.
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 10:27 PM   #8
I=E/R
 
a7ecorsair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,052
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Same here. My outside disco is a 50 amp, with #10 servicing it from the main. Of course, it is protected by a dual 20 amp in the main.
What are you agreeing to? You have #10 protected by a 20 amp breaker. The OP has #10 protected by a 60 amp breaker.
a7ecorsair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:34 PM   #9
Semi-Pro Electro-Geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,544
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Quote:
Originally Posted by a7ecorsair View Post
What are you agreeing to? You have #10 protected by a 20 amp breaker. The OP has #10 protected by a 60 amp breaker.
Not the same situation, but both can be legal. On an AC circuit (or any other circuit for a thermally protected motor), the breaker provides only short circuit protection, not overload protection. The equipment's internal thermal protection provides overload protection. Thus, a higher breaker rating is allowed (and often required, due to startup current) than the wire size would normally permit. The wire is sized to the rated current of the equipment (FLA rating) while the breaker is sized to the maximum circuit rating on the equipment (a number less than the LRA). This can result in a 60A breaker on #10 wire.
mpoulton is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:46 PM   #10
Scared Electrician
 
Saturday Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 715
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


motors are an exception to the "only 30a on #10 wire"
__________________
Ragged Trousered Philanthropist


Please follow the code - its there for your safety no matter how inconvenient.
Saturday Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:48 PM   #11
Scared Electrician
 
Saturday Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 715
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


agreed his plug is pretty s#!tty, but
__________________
Ragged Trousered Philanthropist


Please follow the code - its there for your safety no matter how inconvenient.
Saturday Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:56 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 209
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Well, the picture is so poor it's hard to see what you're complaining about. It looks like the ground wire is sreaight under the terminal screw instead of being looped around the screw. Other than that, what don't you like?
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 12:26 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 115
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Wires not wrapped around the terminals. Wires are stripped WAY beyond where they should be. Peek at the link I posted and it may be more clear. For some reason, the cam had a tough job of focusing...

i have read conflicting opinions on overcurrent protection for ACs. In every instance I have seen, I have seen a 30A breaker on the AC circuit and have never seen a problem during LRA.
brokenhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 12:41 AM   #14
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhammer View Post
i have read conflicting opinions on overcurrent protection for ACs. In every instance I have seen, I have seen a 30A breaker on the AC circuit and have never seen a problem during LRA.
It's not a matter of whether there are problems or not but is the install legal. If the 60 amp breaker is legal, it's legal even if a smaller breaker would work.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 01:01 AM   #15
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Default

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector


I have see and I done with #10 with 50 or 60 amp breaker that rules is allowed for hard wired motour or A/C unit.
{ simaur rules in French Electrical codes as well so there is no diffrence }

That part you have to look up NEC code Art 430 and 440 this is a clear cut legit part.

As far for the photo of the receptle someone strip the insluating materals off little too much.

However I am not going to comment too much on the old work box on the faux brick wall. { I will just leave that part for now until OP want to ask my option on that }

As far for the inspector itself you may get a good one and some may get a lousy or bad inspector which they miss a bit of items.

Oh by the way most inspectors will not remove the receptale from the wall and inspect the receptales unless something that get their attetion then they will look more closer with finecomb.

Did they have rough in approved or just finshed approved ?

Merci,
Marc

__________________
The answer will be based on NEC ( National Electrical code ) or CEC ( Cananda Electrical code ) or ECF ( Electrique Code France )

Last edited by frenchelectrican; 04-07-2011 at 01:05 AM.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.