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brokenhammer 04-06-2011 05:22 PM

Wall of Shame. St. Louis County Electrician and County Inspector
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://picasaweb.google.com/1046233...79652873118482
This image is an example of an outlet that my journeyman electrician wired in my home during a rewiring job. Of course, as he is the journeyman, I wasn't able to wire an outlet / do any of the work (b/c I might screw it up lol) .. look at the wires, coming off he terminals. I had to re-do nearly everything he wired.
Then, I got another electrician who installed a 60 amp breaker for my AC (in the new panel), which as we all know, is #10 wire. Hmm.. anyone wanna bet whether I'll burn the wire or trash the A/C first?
To top it off, the inspector from St. Louis county didn't even catch this simple, stupid mistake and passed the new electric panel and home rewiring.

They all say pulling permits for work makes jobs safer. After this experience, it only cements my thoughts that permits o nothing but add cost to the homeowner, especially when the homeowner is well qualified to do the work. The pic may look a little rough.. I have hi-res shots, but had to modify them so the forum would accept the size of it...

your thoughts?

a7ecorsair 04-06-2011 05:27 PM

Picture is too fuzzy.

darren 04-06-2011 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenhammer (Post 624757)
Then, I got another electrician who installed a 60 amp breaker for my AC (in the new panel), which as we all know, is #10 wire. Hmm.. anyone wanna bet whether I'll burn the wire or trash the A/C first?

So your saying he put #10 on a 60A breaker, I would say that could be a very legal and safe install. Obviously you don't know why he did that so don't come on here saying he is a bad electrician. Maybe call him and he will explain why he did that.

The plug looks bad but not illegal, i would never wire it like that. The inspector would not take the plugs off to see how there wired.

Why don't you call your electrician and tell him your issues.

Speedy Petey 04-06-2011 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darren (Post 624763)
So your saying he put #10 on a 60A breaker, I would say that could be a very legal and safe install.

Considering this is for an A/C unit I completely agree.

brric 04-06-2011 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey (Post 624765)
Considering this is for an A/C unit I completely agree.

Ditto.

gregzoll 04-06-2011 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey (Post 624765)
Considering this is for an A/C unit I completely agree.

Same here. My outside disco is a 50 amp, with #10 servicing it from the main. Of course, it is protected by a dual 20 amp in the main.

gregzoll 04-06-2011 08:22 PM

Was this before or after you messed with his work? If after, then you deserve to have the inspector Red Flag for messing with the Electricians work. Home owners not knowing what they are doing, and making changes to Electrical will always guarantee a nice fire some time down the road.

a7ecorsair 04-06-2011 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 624838)
Same here. My outside disco is a 50 amp, with #10 servicing it from the main. Of course, it is protected by a dual 20 amp in the main.

What are you agreeing to? You have #10 protected by a 20 amp breaker. The OP has #10 protected by a 60 amp breaker.

mpoulton 04-07-2011 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a7ecorsair (Post 624934)
What are you agreeing to? You have #10 protected by a 20 amp breaker. The OP has #10 protected by a 60 amp breaker.

Not the same situation, but both can be legal. On an AC circuit (or any other circuit for a thermally protected motor), the breaker provides only short circuit protection, not overload protection. The equipment's internal thermal protection provides overload protection. Thus, a higher breaker rating is allowed (and often required, due to startup current) than the wire size would normally permit. The wire is sized to the rated current of the equipment (FLA rating) while the breaker is sized to the maximum circuit rating on the equipment (a number less than the LRA). This can result in a 60A breaker on #10 wire.

Saturday Cowboy 04-07-2011 12:46 AM

motors are an exception to the "only 30a on #10 wire"

Saturday Cowboy 04-07-2011 12:48 AM

agreed his plug is pretty s#!tty, but

A Squared 04-07-2011 12:56 AM

Well, the picture is so poor it's hard to see what you're complaining about. It looks like the ground wire is sreaight under the terminal screw instead of being looped around the screw. Other than that, what don't you like?

brokenhammer 04-07-2011 01:26 AM

Wires not wrapped around the terminals. Wires are stripped WAY beyond where they should be. Peek at the link I posted and it may be more clear. For some reason, the cam had a tough job of focusing...

i have read conflicting opinions on overcurrent protection for ACs. In every instance I have seen, I have seen a 30A breaker on the AC circuit and have never seen a problem during LRA.

nap 04-07-2011 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenhammer (Post 624971)
i have read conflicting opinions on overcurrent protection for ACs. In every instance I have seen, I have seen a 30A breaker on the AC circuit and have never seen a problem during LRA.

It's not a matter of whether there are problems or not but is the install legal. If the 60 amp breaker is legal, it's legal even if a smaller breaker would work.

frenchelectrican 04-07-2011 02:01 AM

I have see and I done with #10 with 50 or 60 amp breaker that rules is allowed for hard wired motour or A/C unit.
{ simaur rules in French Electrical codes as well so there is no diffrence }

That part you have to look up NEC code Art 430 and 440 this is a clear cut legit part.

As far for the photo of the receptle someone strip the insluating materals off little too much.

However I am not going to comment too much on the old work box on the faux brick wall. { I will just leave that part for now until OP want to ask my option on that }

As far for the inspector itself you may get a good one and some may get a lousy or bad inspector which they miss a bit of items.

Oh by the way most inspectors will not remove the receptale from the wall and inspect the receptales unless something that get their attetion then they will look more closer with finecomb.

Did they have rough in approved or just finshed approved ?

Merci,
Marc


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