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-   -   VERY Quick Ceiling Fan install question! (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/very-quick-ceiling-fan-install-question-75018/)

Fox 06-29-2010 11:06 PM

VERY Quick Ceiling Fan install question!
 
Hi!

I'm trying to install this:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4...june607.th.jpg

With one of these: (Specifically the bottom one)
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9...june606.th.jpg

In here:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5...june605.th.jpg
(Click on images for a larger version)

But I have no idea what two horizontal 2x4s sandwiching particle board is called, or if it is permitted to hold up a ceiling fan. I'm not even sure how to searched Google to find my answer. What are these joists called? (Edit: I did some research. Are these called 'Wood I-Joists'? Like I-beams?) If they can't support one, can they be modified to do so?

I ask as the box instructions show 2x4s installed on the 2" side to the ceiling, and these have the 4" side to the ceiling. I question if this change would cause too little integrity and send the fan crashing to the ground! (The install bracket does fit as it is exactly 1.5" wide.)

(Sorry about the crooked images. ImageShack did that to them!)

Thank you very much!

Fox 06-30-2010 09:44 PM

No one knows?

a7ecorsair 06-30-2010 09:55 PM

Those look like I joist. The fan support will have to mount to the bottom 2x3s of the I joists. If the box height doesn't work out right you may have to add some additional support pieces inside the two I joist.

jbfan 06-30-2010 10:01 PM

They are called "I" joist.
Was there a light box inside the hole before?

What I have done, take some plywood and glue it to the paracle board. This brings the web out to the same thickness of the 2x4 and this allows the spreader bar to have something to press against.
You wil not be able to use the other box because you have nothing to attach to.

The problem with that is you may not be able to reach the other joist.

HICjim 06-30-2010 10:24 PM

Hi Fox,

I'm not a licensed electrician, but I work side by side with these guys and gals almost every day. I just had a pretty good/heated debate with one of them while looking at your pics.
There's a gray area here about "old work" installation on these architectural joists (work performed after new construction ends), but here's what we feel is the best solution to your installation. Please cover your butt by verifying any advice we give you against your local county's electrical code.

Take 2 pieces of standard plywood (thickness varies with I joist manufacturer) to bring flush with lower rail, 12" long. Using Liquid Nails Construction Adhesive, and following label instructions (press into place/peel away and then re-stick), glue the plywood blocks tightly against the particle board and tight to the bottom rail of your joists. Pin with drywall screws if possible. Let the adhesive cure according to the label.

Your fan mounting kit is one of many good choices. Install per manufacturer's instructions. IMPORTANT NOTE: Do NOT crank it out more than it takes to get a good, safe bite or you'll spread the joists, and your ceiling (and the joist's integrity) will pay DEARLY for it. Be firm, but gentle here. Next, get your hand up in there and pin the ends in place with 1-5/8" drywall screws, or whatever the manufacturer suggests/supplies. Please don't neglect to do this step. I'll bet your family will be VERY upset if your fan falls off and hits them on the head!

Once your box is installed flush with your ceiling, it's time to add a small length of safety chain to the fan (not the box, that comes a little later) at the location suggested by the manufacturer or as required by your local code. This may seem silly to some folks, but not to the unlucky few that have had fans hit them on the head! Years of gentle vibration have a NASTY way of making things come loose. Don't scoff and skip this step.

Now, simply assemble and install your fan as suggested by the manufacturer. When you get to the point where you hang the fan unit/motor on the box, you'll be instructed where and how to secure your safety chain. Personally, we agree that it's MUCH easier making your electrical connections without the chain hanging in your way, so as long as it's hanging SECURELY to the box, it's o.k. to secure your chain after you make those connections.

After you've got that baby workin', sit back with a tall glass of iced tea and enjoy a GREAT/SAFE job WELL DONE!!!

Fox 07-01-2010 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a7ecorsair (Post 463760)
If the box height doesn't work out right you may have to add some additional support pieces inside the two I joist.

The box bracket will fit flush with the 2" side of the 2x3, but I guess I'm wondering if a 2x3 will hold a 30 pound fan?

This bracket only comes with two screws. I'm tempted to buy two more (as it has 4 holes) but then I'm worried too many screws along the span might just weaken the wood.

The other option is L-brackets inside the bottom corner of the I in the joist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbfan (Post 463766)
Was there a light box inside the hole before?

The problem with that is you may not be able to reach the other joist.

No box there before. This is a remodel, not a replace.

The cross bar will reach the other joist, but it doesn't sit flush with the drywall while using an I-joist, so I'm forced to mount to the joist itself on just the one side.

My concern is the weight of a 30lb. fan mounted to the side of a 2x3 in an I-joist will rip two screws provided out of the joist, both splintering the wood and destroying the fan.

That said, I guess what I'm asking is how much weight can a 2x3 (or 4?) hold from it's short side with two screws that are about 2" long. (They look like #8 or #10 wood screws)

I believe I'm just going to create a mock installation by grabbing a 2x4 (or 2x3) and hanging the mounting shelf and box onto it. Then I'll get a chain and hang 70lbs (yes, overkill) of pressure onto it and see if the wood shatters. I realize it all depends on the type of wood they used, but at least this way I'll have a better idea of whether or not it will work without destroying part of the house and a $250 fan. I'll let you know what I find out.

Fox 07-01-2010 12:17 AM

HICjim: Wow.

Nice. Now I get what was being said about the plywood by Corsair. Basically, cut out a big chunk of the drywall for access, shim up both sides with plywood, and then use the cross bar installation kit rather than the single-edge install box.

It's a heck of a lot more work, but it would make me feel much safer about the installation as a whole. I'll probably go about it this way. And don't worry about the chains, I already had this step in mind.

Jim Port 07-01-2010 06:50 AM

Why not just use the remodel fan bracket? This is the type of application they are made for. No need to remove drywall.

Fox 07-01-2010 05:52 PM

Well, those remodel fan brackets are the two different types in the picture. One would require me to drill directly into the bottom flange of the I-joist, and the other won't sit flush against the drywall due to the flange protruding past the webbing. (It has little plastic stands that measure it. I could cut them off and guess, but the 2x4 is going to be stronger and more secure anyway.)

The problem is that these I-joists, to the best of my knowledge, while using less wood than older beams, and being stronger, are also more fragile to modification. That 2x3 is weakened if you start drilling into it, especially if it happens to split in any way.

Rather than lowering the integrity of the house itself, I believe I'm going to measure the distance between the two joists from webbing to webbing, and place a 2x4 on the bottom flanges of the adjacent I-joists. Some construction adhesive should do the trick and I think I can do this without cutting additional holes. Then I'll just mount a box to this. It will all be linked to safety chains mounted into the floor above it, just in case.

Is this all "overkill"? *sigh* I'm sure it is, and I'm sure you're all shaking your collective heads at me, but this is my girlfriend's house and if I cause part of her living room ceiling to crack, bow, bend, or break I will never, ever, ever hear the end of it from her, her friends, or her entire family. *smile* I hope that puts it into perspective. *grin*

HICjim 07-01-2010 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox (Post 463818)
HICjim: Wow.

Nice. Now I get what was being said about the plywood by Corsair. Basically, cut out a big chunk of the drywall for access, shim up both sides with plywood, and then use the cross bar installation kit rather than the single-edge install box.

It's a heck of a lot more work, but it would make me feel much safer about the installation as a whole. I'll probably go about it this way. And don't worry about the chains, I already had this step in mind.


Fox,

Don't change your kit! You don't need to remove any more of the ceiling than you have already. If you don't have room to get your hand and screwdriver up along side the box, just MAKE SURE you secure the locknut on the kit's shaft.

Fox 07-02-2010 05:03 PM

Jim,

No worries. I'll just brace the 2x4 between the two bottom flanges. I picked up a standard ceiling fan box. I imagine it'll hold to the bottom pretty well, and is less likely to shift than the metal crossbar.

mihomeowner 03-23-2014 01:56 AM

Happened upon this thread trying to sort out how to install a new ceiling fan where no light was. I have I-joists as well, so was thinking I would need some kind of blocks to level out the I-Joist to use the kits they sell in the stores.

That is, until I found this: arlington FBRS407R

It's the expandable bracket for ceiling fans/light fixtures, but designed for I-joists. This took a lot of looking around on the internet to find. Hope this helps someone down the road. I installed it, and it works great.


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