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Old 04-27-2013, 01:38 PM   #1
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Using ceiling box as junction box too many wires


Hi all,

I am re-wiring my dining room (old work) and have run 12/2 on a 20a breaker with 20a receptacles. I'm trying to eliminate having to use junction boxes in the basement to feed different receptacles based on my floorplan.

I have a Carlon ceiling box which is 20cu in and states that I can have 8 #12 wires in the box (can't seem to fully wrap my head around what get's counted, meaning, do you count only those that are hot, grounds count as one as a whole, do travelers count, and do the wires for the actual light itself count).

I've got a feed of 12/2 going into one carlon 20cu in box that has another run of 12/2 going to a single switch using the neutral as a hot to turn the light on/off.

Similar to this.


Inside this same box, I've got another 12/2 that is going over to another ceiling box feeding constant power. Instead of it going to a receptacle it's going to another ceiling light box. This one below.



In this box I've added an additional 12/2 feeding off it to continue on to another receptacle. This is my question/concern.

12/2 wires require 2.25 for each wire, which put's me way over the requirement, not to mention I think it would be VERY cramped in that box.

My alternative was to run another 12/2 from the first ceiling box instead, since there isn't any extra 12/3 in there to take up space, but even then it comes up to 20.25 I believe which is over the requirement.

This diagram shows three 12/2 in the ceiling box, I'm even wondering if I can add another 12/2.



No matter what I try, I keep having to think about going back to using a junction box in the basement to feed the rest of the receptacles.

If someone could clarify in plain english, not NEC code speak, I think that would get me sorted. My gut is telling me I've got too many wires in the ceiling box and trying to splice in another 12/2 to continue the run has me asking questions.

Nothing's actually hooked up or working I've just made the pulls and this is the last bit that's got me stumped. Thanks all!

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Old 04-27-2013, 01:48 PM   #2
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Using ceiling box as junction box too many wires


Every conductor in the box counts, except ALL the grounds only count as one.

Can you just go receptacle to receptacle and ignore the light boxes?

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Old 04-27-2013, 02:05 PM   #3
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Using ceiling box as junction box too many wires


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Every conductor in the box counts, except ALL the grounds only count as one.

Can you just go receptacle to receptacle and ignore the light boxes?
I wanted to but the layout of the receptacles made it really difficult.

Previously when we moved in, there was a feed starting in the attic that went to one receptacle then down to the basement and into a junction box where it branched off to feed a receptacle on the right of the dining room and another going to the left. The left receptacle then went to feed a single light.

Since then I wanted to add the 3 way switch's, and the wife wanted a light in the closet with a single switch.

I've attached a rough diagram that has helped me a bit try to wrap my head around the layout. Ultimately I think I'm going to have to take that feed from the basement that I ran and pull that into a junction box, one feed going up to the first receptacle, the other going to feed the other receptacles that I was trying to feed from one of the ceiling boxes. ( I just did not want to use a bunch of junction boxes like the previous owner did in the basement, but one won't kill me).
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Using ceiling box as junction box too many wires-diningroom_electrical_layout.jpg  
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:47 PM   #4
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Using ceiling box as junction box too many wires


The dining room receptacle circuit should not have lighting on it.
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:12 PM   #5
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Using ceiling box as junction box too many wires


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
The dining room receptacle circuit should not have lighting on it.
I've removed the 12/2 feed coming from the dining room light box. I'll feed the receptacles from a junction box in the basement instead, now that I have a better handle on the wire count.
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Using ceiling box as junction box too many wires-diningroom_electrical_layout.jpg  
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