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Old 09-18-2010, 11:31 PM   #1
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


I was redoing some outlets in this 30yr old house and almost got cooked.

The guy who did it ran some outlets on 14/3 or 12/3 and had the red and black both hot - the black would go to the outlet and the red was connected to the black side of another 14/2 that runs the lights on another circuit.

So to fix the one outlet I tripped 2 fuses (just to be safe) and the red and black were both off.

I am wondering if this is against Canadian code and if there is any danger since in that cable I'd have 240 running if you count the voltage in the black and red wires.

I'm not sure if the wire was 14/3 , 12/3 or other...now that I think of it - it was a bigger cable - so most likely 12/3

tHANKS
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:12 AM   #2
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


You have multiwire branch circuit and it kinda common with some homes do that.

But there is one nice gotcha I know in NEC codes you have to use the two pole breaker to simuitaly shut off the MWBC { that is enforced in 2008 NEC code cycle }

I am not 100% sure about CEC but I think they are simauir with NEC so one of our Canada electrician will show up and give you the correct answer with that.

And you do not have red and black on the recetpale so that can be extempted.

Now other issue if you have 2.5mm˛ { #14 AWG } mixed with 4.0mm˛ { #12 AWG } you have to sized the breaker to the smaller conductor so the smaller one is restricted to 15 amp.

If you have that set up you will have to change the breaker on that one.

Merci.
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:39 AM   #3
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


Ok thanks

as long as it is safe and kinda normal

I feel better about that
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:28 AM   #4
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


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Originally Posted by hellothere123 View Post
I am wondering if this is against Canadian code and if there is any danger since in that cable I'd have 240 running if you count the voltage in the black and red wires.
The danger is if you DON'T have 240 between red and black. That would mean both circuits are on the same service leg, and you'd be overloading the neutral.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:11 AM   #5
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


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The danger is if you DON'T have 240 between red and black. That would mean both circuits are on the same service leg, and you'd be overloading the neutral.
I never did the original wiring and it has been working here for 20 or 30 years...so I assume it was done safe.

I'm not too clear on what you are saying...any way to test what you mean?

Thanks
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:18 AM   #6
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


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Originally Posted by hellothere123 View Post
I never did the original wiring and it has been working here for 20 or 30 years...so I assume it was done safe.

I'm not too clear on what you are saying...any way to test what you mean?

Thanks
To clear up the question what ZPM saying if you have voltmeter and read both red and black conductor if you have 240 volts between the two you are fine but if reading zero volts then you have issue due the breakers may landed on the same phases and the netural conductor will become addtive which it mean if you have 8 amp load on breaker A and on Breaker B you will get 10 amp load it will add up to 18 amps that on same phases.

Now with proper breaker set up again use the same example above 8 amp on breaker B and 10 amp on breaker B you will get 2 amp load that is proper.

Merci.
Marc
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:51 AM   #7
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


Are the two breakers that you turned off right on top of one another? In most panels, breakers on top of each other would be on two separate legs (and the correct way to do a MWBC), and the only acceptable way to do it.

Also, it should be impossible to turn 1 breaker off without the other turning off. Meaning it should be a 2-pole breaker (one large breaker covering 2 spots) or two 1-pole breakers with their handles tied together with a handle-tie.
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:20 AM   #8
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Using 14/3 with black and red hot = code?


Stubbie's MWBC diagrams

http://www.dropshots.com/stubbie4#al...nch%20circuits
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