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Old 10-25-2007, 12:22 AM   #1
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Upgrading garage wiring


I am in the middle of remodeling my garage into a future entry /mud room.I am beginning to think about what I'm going to want for electric. Part of the plan for this area is to bring in the washer and(gas) dryer.At a minimum I'll want one circuit for outlets(20 amp),one for lights(15 amp) and one for the washing machine(20 amp).I'd like to have a couple circuits extra available for maybe outside lighting,a small generator or anything the wife could possibly come up with.I have an extra 30 amp DP breaker in my 200 amp main panel that powers #10 romex which was originally used for an electric dryer. My thought was to reroute this to a six breaker sub panel with main disconnect in the garage.Any thoughts? If 30 amps is too small for 6 breakers is it enough for four?

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Old 10-25-2007, 04:50 AM   #2
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Upgrading garage wiring


Theoretically, 30A is enough for as many as you want to put on it. If you overload it, you'll just have to go back to the main panel and reset it.

Realistically, it depends on what all you're planning on using. From what you described it sounds like there's not going to be any major loads on it. A couple lights and a washing machine shouldn't run over 30A so you should be fine.

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Old 10-25-2007, 06:57 PM   #3
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Upgrading garage wiring


Thanks jproffer for the second opinion.I thought I'd be fine but it never hurts to hear from others. I don't forsee anything major(maybe a kegerator?!!) other than what I already mentioned.
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Old 10-25-2007, 07:00 PM   #4
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Upgrading garage wiring


Would it be "Mission Impossible" to pull another wire from your main panel to this sub?? While 30A SHOULD be fine...It would be much more fun if we could have 50 or 60A.
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Old 10-25-2007, 07:47 PM   #5
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Upgrading garage wiring


No not a big deal at all to pull another cable,it's just that I have that 30 amp DP and all that #10(more than I'll need actually) doing nothing. Have you seen the price of romex lately? On the other hand it would be kind of nice to leave the dryer electric intact in case the next guy wants it.I have no plans to move ever if it's up to me,but who knows?I did go 60 amp in a sub I ran to the third floor master bedroom(attic conversion) to supply supplemental electric baseboard heat. Your thoughts on going bigger?
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Old 10-25-2007, 07:55 PM   #6
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Naa, No thoughts really... it is just essentially an entryway/ mudroom. I'd stick with your plan.
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:40 AM   #7
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Upgrading garage wiring


Just a thought for you, I tend to think about future selling points of my home when I'm remodeling, just in case I sell it. If you can run an extra 20amps without issue it would allow for an electric dryer in the future..... I think an elec. dryer running with a light on would blow a 30amp breaker. Like I said, just a thought.

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Old 10-26-2007, 09:58 AM   #8
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Upgrading garage wiring


I assume this is an attached garage? If so, you need to have 10/3 (minimum) to run a subpanel. Is your old dryer wiring 10/3?
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:18 AM   #9
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Upgrading garage wiring


Househelpers correct about the garage possibly being a seperate structure. Is the garage attached to the house, or is it separated from the house? If so, do as he says. 4 wire cable. 2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground (ECG).

30 amp sub panel is not recomended. In your last post your mentioned "clothes dryer". You still have a motor in a gas dryer. And your wife's desire for more devises.
60 or 100 Amp for me minimum.
Since its in a garage why not use EMT conduit, for the feeder and all the branch circuits. looks much better and allows for expansion later with ease. Bending conduit is an art form. But you could learn the basics and do a acceptable job.

Make sure not to bond the neutral and ground in the sub panel.
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Old 10-26-2007, 05:11 PM   #10
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Upgrading garage wiring


I think it would be great to run all your stuff in EMT as well....but, as a resi electrician for many years who switched to commercial last year I will be brutally honest with you and tell you that I have mangled hundreds of feet of pipe learning the "art" of bending it. Fortunately for me it is all on the bosses dime. It is "assumed" A green pipe bender guy is gonna mangle up some pipe. Unfortunately for you, your mistakes will be on your dime. Best of luck and go with the sixty... condider it an investment.
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:52 PM   #11
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Upgrading garage wiring


Ok guys, you talked me into 50 amps I guess. I've been out of town in Atlanta (hi Andy) so have'nt had a chance to answer your questions. The garage is attached. I did'nt quite understand the question on whether my current dryer wiring is 10/3 or not.Of course it is( two hots,one nuetral,one ground).Is there such a thing as using 10/2 for dryer wiring? As I mentioned it's 10/3 with a 30amp DOUBLE POLE breaker.Also conduit is not considered because part of this garage conversion will include finishing the walls and ceiling. Running the 50 AMP will be slightly more of a problem but I suppose I will.By the way,I'm told that #8/3 is available in romex. True? Is that what to use if I go 50 AMP?
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:05 PM   #12
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Upgrading garage wiring


If you want a 50A circuit and are using Romex, you will have to use 6/3.

Prior to 1996, it was acceptable to use three insulated wires to feed a dryer (and range), two hots and a neutral. You were allowed to bond the frame of the appliance to the neutral. All this was permissible IF the circuit originated at the service entrance panel. SE type cable was also allowed in this application.
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:09 PM   #13
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Nope... 8/3 is good for 40A. 6/3= 55A. You can get 6/3 in romex as well. OOPs, HH beat me to it.
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:37 PM   #14
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Upgrading garage wiring


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
4 wire cable. 2 hots 1 neutral and 1 ground (ECG).
THAT IS NOT 4 WIRE... you DONT count the ground that is a 3 WIRE
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:38 PM   #15
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Upgrading garage wiring


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy in ATL View Post
Nope... 8/3 is good for 40A. 6/3= 55A. You can get 6/3 in romex as well. OOPs, HH beat me to it.
NO!!! #6 CU is good for 65Amps, $6 ALU is good for 55 amps and #8 CU is good for for 50 AMPS

***** MAKE SURE YOU GET R90 LOOMEX... basically rated for 90 Degrees C/ (167oF)


Last edited by SwiftyMcV; 11-02-2007 at 11:45 PM.
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