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Old 03-23-2013, 03:11 PM   #16
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


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Thanks. I don't think replacing the wire would benefit me since I could only replace the part of the wire that is outside of the concrete footing.

I'm not even close to an experienced electrician but I'm curious - why would you prefer to replace the wire vs using a grounding rod? Wouldn't a grounding rod be much less expensive than the #4 wire?
The NEC requires the #4 to the ufer ground. This has been a topic at many inspectors meetings. The DCA stance is that the re-bar will have to be day lighted (exposed) and the #4 attached to it.. Sorry about that. FYI - the ufer ground is your best available grounding electrode.

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Old 03-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #17
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


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A metal underground water pipe shall be supplemented by an additional electrode of a type specified in 250.52(A)(2) through (A)(8).
Yeah, and in this case the supplemental electrode is the Ufer.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:00 PM   #18
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


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The NEC requires the #4 to the ufer ground. This has been a topic at many inspectors meetings. The DCA stance is that the re-bar will have to be day lighted (exposed) and the #4 attached to it.. Sorry about that. FYI - the ufer ground is your best available grounding electrode.
Well, right or wrong the inspector approved the ufer before I poured the footer. In fact, he said I the ufer wasn't required because it was an addition.

I will leave it as is and combine it with the existing grounding rod plus the metal water pipe. Hopefully the inspector doesn't change his mind when he is doing the final electrical inspection.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:03 PM   #19
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


If you were not moving your service or upgrading it....then, yea, you don't have to do anything.

But.....at least your going to have a good ground.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:35 AM   #20
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


I guess there aren't any comments on the meter swap?

I will post under a new topic and see if that gets any bites.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by CapeCod153 View Post
Well, right or wrong the inspector approved the ufer before I poured the footer. In fact, he said I the ufer wasn't required because it was an addition.

I will leave it as is and combine it with the existing grounding rod plus the metal water pipe. Hopefully the inspector doesn't change his mind when he is doing the final electrical inspection.
A violation is a violation. Doesn't matter when it is sited, it has to be corrected. Be warned.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:50 AM   #22
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I guess there aren't any comments on the meter swap?

I will post under a new topic and see if that gets any bites.
I guess it helps to read your 'whole' first post....we all go hung up on the Ufer ground....

Ok....doing the meter yourself....it's actually easy....just as easy as doing the individual wiring. I've done it twice......1st time I was upgrading the original service from 60A to 200A...second time I had to move the service because of my 2-story addition...

A few pointers...

1. You PoCo will not connect to the new meter without a signed permit from your building and safety...so...get your permit...then call the PoCo and get a meter spot...this is where they come out and approve the new location. Even if you are not moving it, they will want to make sure it's the right place.

2. Don't buy cheap...as in Murray...I had one...it's ok...did it's job...but the Square D I put in is much better I think.

3. Decide how many ckts you need...if a panel is listed as 20/40....it means it has 20 spaces but you can put in tandem breakers for a total of 40 switched ckts. This is what I did...it fits....but if I had it to do over...I would have gone with a 40 space load center just for the space.

4. If possible, go recessed....looks a lot better than one sticking out and it's easier to bring in your ckts...just punch out the knockouts and use the proper clamps.

5. Check your local codes...but in most cases, the weather head needs to be 30-36" above the roof line. At 200A, your going to need 2/00 wire....so use a 2" rigid pipe going up. If you do recessed, then it means you will be punching a 2 1/2" hole in your top plate. Simpson makes a bracket just for that. Another option is to use an offset to run it on the outside...but I think that looks ugly....

6. Make sure you torque the wires down to the recommended torque for your load center (it will be in the instructions)

7. Make sure you leave enough wire sticking out of your weatherhead for the PoCo to hook up to....In my case it was 12".

8. Your neutral will be the same 2/00 wire as your two hots...just use white tape to identify it. I put plenty on there to remove any doubt.

Don't be afraid to talk to your inspector if you have questions. In 'most' cases they are glad to answer those questions. Mine inspector will actually come out to my house to look at something if he can't answer it on the phone.

Take plenty of pics...they come in handy later....
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:14 AM   #23
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


Wow - THANKS! I guess I should've given it some time before I made a new post.

About the only question you didn't answer from my new post is do you know if there is a way to determine if my existing 100amp meter pan is rated to accept a 200amp meter?
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:18 AM   #24
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A violation is a violation. Doesn't matter when it is sited, it has to be corrected. Be warned.
I assume you mean if a future home inspector notices that the wire is #6 instead of #4. It doesn't seem fair that an inspector can approve something and then make me change it later when it is difficult and costly. either way, I appreciate your input and warning.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:25 AM   #25
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


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Originally Posted by CapeCod153

I assume you mean if a future home inspector notices that the wire is #6 instead of #4. It doesn't seem fair that an inspector can approve something and then make me change it later when it is difficult and costly. either way, I appreciate your input and warning.
Nope. Doesn't matter when it is caught. It is a violation.

As for the meter socket. Post a picture. FYI - You can not enter the meter enclosure from behind or the sides with 4/0 conductors. Only from the bottom.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:25 AM   #26
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I just read your other post....underground service....I have no experience with that....your going to need input from others....

As was mentioned above....a violation is a violation....your big issue is if a different inspector comes out....

Just slam a couple of grounds rods in with the right size wire and make it a non issue.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:29 AM   #27
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upgrade meter, meter panel and ufer ground supplement


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Originally Posted by ddawg16
I just read your other post....underground service....I have no experience with that....your going to need input from others....

As was mentioned above....a violation is a violation....your big issue is if a different inspector comes out....

Just slam a couple of grounds rods in with the right size wire and make it a non issue.
If the ufer ground is present it has to be used and with the correct size conductor.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:03 PM   #28
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If the ufer ground is present it has to be used and with the correct size conductor.
Maybe I should just remove the ufer since the inspector said I didn't need it to begin with (again, assuming he was right or sticks by his original claim even if he wasn't).

If I do hook it up with the undersized wire I assume it doesn't cause any safety issues as long as I also have the grounding rods and water line ground? Wouldn't more ground be better even if the wire is 1 size too small?
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:35 PM   #29
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Maybe I should just remove the ufer since the inspector said I didn't need it to begin with (again, assuming he was right or sticks by his original claim even if he wasn't).

If I do hook it up with the undersized wire I assume it doesn't cause any safety issues as long as I also have the grounding rods and water line ground? Wouldn't more ground be better even if the wire is 1 size too small?
It is already present. I know I wouldn't accept it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:48 PM   #30
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WHo is your supplier? Is the panel in the garage or basement? I'll try and help you with the meter swap, but I need more info. Especially a picture of the meter can.

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