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-   -   Updating to comply with NEC (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/updating-comply-nec-52985/)

bobward 09-14-2009 12:23 PM

Updating to comply with NEC
 
As the NEC gets updated with each new issue there are newer and usually stricter requirements. When would an individual/ land lord have to update to comply with the new NEC. For example the new requirement of all the tamper resistant outlets; will a landlord have to update that? Or as in the new 2008 NEC the practice of haveing common area lights and outlets in an individual dwelling unit and just for the landlord to compensate the tenant is not aloud. Would the tenant be able to say that they do now want to do that because it is not by present code? I always have found it interesting that the code can constantly get improved but proven dangerous methods are not mandated to be corrected.

J. V. 09-14-2009 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobward (Post 327635)
As the NEC gets updated with each new issue there are newer and usually stricter requirements. When would an individual/ land lord have to update to comply with the new NEC.

When he is performing significant work to the electrical system and only by the requirement of the AHJ.

For example the new requirement of all the tamper resistant outlets; will a landlord have to update that?

Generally, no. Once again the AHJ would have to require this. The NEC would not require him to do anything. Now, if a safety issue is involved, it should be reported to the AHJ for his determination.


Or as in the new 2008 NEC the practice of haveing common area lights and outlets in an individual dwelling unit and just for the landlord to compensate the tenant is not aloud.

The NEC makes no mention of this that I am aware of. This is a contract between tenant and landlord and has no NEC ramifications.

Would the tenant be able to say that they do now want to do that because it is not by present code? I always have found it interesting that the code can constantly get improved but proven dangerous methods are not mandated to be corrected.

Where are you getting this information? The NEC has no connection or intention to assist in landlord/tenant relations. These matters are drawn in the body of a lease. The NEC has no influence over leases or contracts and who pays for what.

The NEC code is the minimum safety requirement for electrical installations. Dangerous installations or prevailing safety issues should be brought to the attention of the landlord or any property owner for identification and for repairs if required.

bobward 09-14-2009 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. V. (Post 327654)
Where are you getting this information? The NEC has no connection or intention to assist in landlord/tenant relations. These matters are drawn in the body of a lease. The NEC has no influence over leases or contracts and who pays for what.

The NEC code is the minimum safety requirement for electrical installations. Dangerous installations or prevailing safety issues should be brought to the attention of the landlord or any property owner for identification and for repairs if required.

NEC 2008 210.25 :
(A) Dwelling Unit Branch circuits. Branch circuits in each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.
(B) Branch circuits required for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other needs for public or common areas of a two - family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multi-occupancy building shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

Scuba_Dave 09-14-2009 03:08 PM

What JV is saying that the NEC Code does not make you upgrade

Your local Inspector/ Insurance/Rental laws control that
Not the NEC

NEC indicates what Code to meet for new construction & renovations, it does not decide any issues about existing circuits or how you re-imburse tenants if power is being drawn from their meter for a common area

J. V. 09-15-2009 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobward (Post 327692)
NEC 2008 210.25 :
(A) Dwelling Unit Branch circuits. Branch circuits in each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.
(B) Branch circuits required for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other needs for public or common areas of a two - family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multi-occupancy building shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

Bob,
I see where you are getting your information and I must apologize. It's stated exactly the same in the 2005 code cycle also. You are correct. :yes: BUT you must look at when this house, building or apartment was built, and what it was built for. If it was built as a single family dwelling then changed to a multi family dwelling then the local inspectors may have not done their job. Maybe your landlord never had it inspected. Tell us more about the circumstances of the building itself. Age and any remodeling or renovations performed. All the records, if permits where pulled are publicly available. If your landlord has pulled a fast one, you just may have a case. Let us know........Thanks John

Scuba_Dave 09-15-2009 12:21 PM

Ah, I see - I thought originally he was the landlord

Quote:

The new Code will affect all new construction (and renovated dwellings) installations for single- and multifamily homes.
Usually there is a renovation min - 25% or more before they are required to meet current code. That doesn't include cosmetics like paint

Will your landlord have to upgrade? No
UNLESS there is some local code/law etc that makes landlords upgrade
I did read another thread on here where a City/Town made landlords upgrade - but can't remember the location or details

Here is a tentative list of state acceptance:
http://www.childoutletsafety.org/fil...doptionMap.pdf

Quote:

2008 NEC the practice of haveing common area lights and outlets in an individual dwelling unit and just for the landlord to compensate the tenant is not allowed. Would the tenant be able to say that they do now want to do that because it is not by present code?
Yes you would be able say that you do not want that
But there is no law to force the landlord to change it
And your only option might be to move
It may depend upon how the renting situation is going
If Apts are renting very quickly, then the landord will not have any incentive to spend $$ to bring something up to code.

So unless the change was made AFTER the NEC code was in place - and can be proven - then you maybe out of luck

220/221 09-15-2009 06:43 PM

Quote:

When would an individual/ land lord have to update to comply with the new NEC.
Generally, only when new work is done.

There may be local exceptions for really old buildings that need certificates of occupancy.

kbsparky 09-15-2009 09:30 PM

Some provisions of the Code require upgrades to current standards when replacing worn out equipment.

Case in point:

406.3(D)(2). Replacements/Ground-fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.

J. V. 09-16-2009 11:03 AM

The point that interested me most in the OP's post was the sharing of common areas with his personal power source. Since the OP has left the discussion so will I.

Termite 09-16-2009 11:10 AM

It might be worth looking at the International Property Maintenance Code if it is applicable in your city. I don't know much about it but it may have the language that would either help you or get you in trouble.


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