Unused openned knockouts?

WillK · 06-02-2011, 12:27 AM

Is there any circumstances I don't need to have unused open knockouts plugged? Just remembered I have some in my garage subpanel, and I don't have all the right knockouts...

For that matter, I do have 3/4" knockouts and 3/4" opennings - but the knockouts seem too big and the knockout ring for the next size started bending when I tried to get the plug in... I hope the question is obvious, I'm too tired to finish typing whole words.

frenchelectrican · 06-02-2011, 01:44 AM

After you get a nice rest try it again most KO filler will snap in pretty firm and you can not leave any open KO's at all.

Which kind of KO filler you are using ?? the metal or plastique verison ?? If metal just bend in couple tabs but not too many or bend in too much you don't need to go crazy to push it in and also make sure there will be no conductors { wires } that will get pintched when you push in the KO cover in the place.

Most the KO filler I just take a lineman plier and give them a quick whack they useally snap in pretty fast.

The 1/2 , 3/4 and 1 inch verison is the most common KO filler I use but there are few larger size I use them from time to time.

Merci,
Marc

sirsparksalot · 06-02-2011, 03:18 AM

http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/...nock-outs.aspx

kbsparky · 06-02-2011, 06:19 AM

Try looking here for a plastic one.

AllanJ · 06-02-2011, 07:28 AM

If the box is not already installed, it is sometimes better to buy a new box if for example the cost of plugs to fill the unused holes is greater.

SD515 · 06-02-2011, 11:37 AM

I've had to bend the tabs of the KO seal inward some to get it to snap into the hole, then bend them out some to get them to stay tight. They don't make things like they used too...

WillK · 06-02-2011, 02:52 PM

Yeah, this is on a main breaker panel. I bought the metal plugs, HD didn't have plastic, and with the morning schedule full I got home with them the same time the inspector got there. He didn't say anything about this issue, but he did decide that he wanted the service cable on the main to go straight into the panel. Would've been nice if he said this the first time he rejected my rough inspection. The garage feeders I had to move into conduit were long enough to get into conduit and reconnect. Now they aren't long enough for where I need to move the panel to, AND the conduit run is garbage.

I already put the request in for inspection tommorrow. I'm thinking about doing nothing and telling him to look at everything and stay until I have a list of everything he objects to and a corrective action he agrees with. Ya know, so I don't have to rework my rework. Again. I'll probably try to get through everything anyway (if I can get the wife to release a credit card so I can get material tonight instead of tommorrow after the paycheck deposits - tomorrrow doesn't leave enough time to install it.)

Jim Port · 06-02-2011, 03:12 PM

Did the inspector cite a code reference for the rejection? Do you have a pic?

WillK · 06-02-2011, 09:41 PM

My problem with the inspector isn't that he wants things that go beyond code, it's that he just does enough inspecting to find 2 things and then leaves... Then the next time when I've fixed the 2 things he's identified plus everything else I can find, he finds 2 more things - and these are things that he COULD have found the first time because they are exactly as it was the first time he came out.

This time, the problem is compounded by the fact that I have to move the panel. Thus trashing the work I did on the garage feeder getting it into conduit.

Anyway, I'm not in a position where I don't know what to do or I want to try to argue that he's wrong.

But I need to vent so I can clear my head and get on with the work I need to do to get ready for the next round. Which I'll do in another thread.

Tigerloose · 06-02-2011, 10:08 PM

Will,
Please let us know how it goes with the inspection. My guess is that the inspector will not be all that pleased with you doing nothing and asking him to do another inspection so that all of the corrections come to light. Sometimes, additional work fixing previous corrections results in new corrections.

You said that you have been told to move the panel but it is not clear why you must move the panel. You also said that the inspector wants things "beyond the code". What are the things that are beyond code?

WillK · 06-02-2011, 10:26 PM

I've already done the work that he asked for that didn't require buying any new materials. Securing cables in general, my understanding has been that the flexible tabs in the blue boxes and holes in joists count as points the cable is secured and he went with that on the first permit. This time he wanted everything stapled.

Beyond code was the service mast bracing he required the first time through. He looked at it and made no objection.

The service entrance is on the wall of a 11x11 additon where there is a window in the middle of the wall on which the meter is mounted. It needs to be near the corner to get the 36" distance to the window, so it comes through close to the corner. On the inside of the house, the adjacent wall has a cabinet hanging on it, so the service panel is not a straight shot through the wall to the meter socket. He wants a straight shot.

To achieve this, I need to move the panel left 9" and up 6". I have most of my circuits coming in from above so no problem with those, but the garage feeder comes in from the right and below. The first inspection I had to put the feeder cables in conduit, but I was able to do so with the existing length by moving the breaker to the lowest breaker position. I don't have enough cable for the panel move, so I need to do a splice in my j-box.

By the way, the first permit I had, he objected to surface mounted schedule 40 due to needing protection from physical damage. This was on a run that was behind a hard mounted utility sink.

This time I have surface mounted schedule 40 in the garage. No objection. On one hand a lack of consistency. On the other hand, I'm keeping my mouth shut because I'm between jobs and I'm pinching pennies to try to get this inspection done rather than having spent $1400 for nothing because I can't afford the $20 extra it'd cost to run EMT instead of PVC.

Jim Port · 06-02-2011, 10:34 PM

The tabs in the box allow you to staple within 12" instead of 8".

Can you link to the pic of your service entrance?

WillK · 06-02-2011, 10:53 PM

Just posted a seperate thread on the service entrance.

The thing is with the cables, all of them are run horizontal through studs and the holes are either less than 12" above the stud the J box is mounted on or they're on the next stud over.

The photo below shows what he wanted me to do, at the inspection the staples were not there.

kbsparky · 06-02-2011, 11:03 PM

Looks like you missed one:

Tigerloose · 06-02-2011, 11:18 PM

The romex is bent with too small a radius just above two of the outlet boxes. Since the cable is too short to move the staples, nail in a block and staple the cable at the block. Passing through a hole counts the same as a staple so if the hole is within 8" of the box, no staple is required. I see a cable that is stapled sideways and the cable should be stapled flat against the stud.

06-02-2011, 12:27 AM	#1
WillK I ask the impossible! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Royal Oak, Michigan Posts: 1,034 Blog Entries: 7	Unused openned knockouts? Is there any circumstances I don't need to have unused open knockouts plugged? Just remembered I have some in my garage subpanel, and I don't have all the right knockouts... For that matter, I do have 3/4" knockouts and 3/4" opennings - but the knockouts seem too big and the knockout ring for the next size started bending when I tried to get the plug in... I hope the question is obvious, I'm too tired to finish typing whole words. __________________ Please do NOT consider any "before" picture of my house as any kind of endorsement of any particular construction method. In fact, you should probably assume that if I post a "before" picture, I am posting it because I am soliciting advice on a proper replacement for one of MANY things done wrong by a previous owner.

06-02-2011, 01:44 AM	#2
frenchelectrican " Euro " electrician Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: WI & France { in France for now } Posts: 5,100	Unused openned knockouts? After you get a nice rest try it again most KO filler will snap in pretty firm and you can not leave any open KO's at all. Which kind of KO filler you are using ?? the metal or plastique verison ?? If metal just bend in couple tabs but not too many or bend in too much you don't need to go crazy to push it in and also make sure there will be no conductors { wires } that will get pintched when you push in the KO cover in the place. Most the KO filler I just take a lineman plier and give them a quick whack they useally snap in pretty fast. The 1/2 , 3/4 and 1 inch verison is the most common KO filler I use but there are few larger size I use them from time to time. Merci, Marc __________________ The answer will be based on NEC ( National Electrical code ) or CEC ( Cananda Electrical code ) or ECF ( Electrique Code France )

06-02-2011, 03:18 AM	#3
sirsparksalot Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Central Indiana (USA) Posts: 1,022	Unused openned knockouts? http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/...nock-outs.aspx

06-02-2011, 06:19 AM	#4
kbsparky Electrical Contractor Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Delmarva Posts: 3,148	Unused openned knockouts? Try looking here for a plastic one. __________________ -KB Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-02-2011, 07:28 AM	#5
AllanJ Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Nashua, NH, USA Posts: 6,775	Unused openned knockouts? If the box is not already installed, it is sometimes better to buy a new box if for example the cost of plugs to fill the unused holes is greater. __________________ The average homeowner who lost his house in the Oklahoma tornadoes should move for good and not rebuild. Too much complexity watchdogging the contractor. Too much a chance to be defrauded.

Unused openned knockouts?