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Old 11-26-2007, 06:36 PM   #76
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


Well put Andy and house! I would never disagree. I always wonder how unqualified people kludge things together while they are live.

Maybe some real hick areas allow it, but not anywhere I've been!

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Old 11-26-2007, 06:45 PM   #77
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


Travel to parts of the north GA mountains....No real rules at all. Pull permit and go. Biggest uninspected project?

10,000sq ft lake house that took 11 mos to build.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:59 PM   #78
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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Travel to parts of the north GA mountains....No real rules at all. Pull permit and go. Biggest uninspected project?

10,000sq ft lake house that took 11 mos to build.
North GA requires permits????
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:16 PM   #79
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


It SEEMS like in Rabun county you pull a permit. It is like a form of taxation. Never an inspection. I recall the tax assesor spent hours in there. It was a real beauty on Burton. Taxed out at 4.85 mill. Would of been 10M on Lanier (which is such a crappy lake, even when full). Coolest house I've wired to date.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:15 PM   #80
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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I always wonder how unqualified people kludge things together while they are live.
Junkcollector, whats more amazing is why more houses don't burn down because of "things kludged together". My first winter in my current house was unusually cold and the water well froze up. I decide to add an electrical outlet to the well house for a heater. Well within my capabilities as a DIYer. I opened a sub-panel (with no main) close by and the 6 ga. feed wiring was as follows: Neutral - black, one leg - red, second leg white. No ground. The breakers all had a white wire connected and the black was connected to the neutral bar. I opened an outlet, and it was wired as follows: black to the narrow slit and white to the wide slit (that was proper but wrong in this case). I then opened the main panel and could not find a white wire connected to a breaker. In fact, I could not find a 6 ga wire anywhere in the panel. I clipped the POCO seal and opened the meter box and the sub-panel feeder went directly from the meter panel to the sub-panel, no fuses or breakers. I pulled the meter (I followed proper procedure for pulling a meter) disconnected the sub-panel, and called a licensed electrician. Once the seal was cut I knew I had to pull a permit to get a new seal and in my area only a licensed electrician can pull a permit.

S0lidgr0und, I highly recommend you hire an electrician to change out the service entry wire. The meter reader will notice the missing seal and if you live in an area where it's illegal for the homeowner to cut the seal, you just spent a lot of money on fines and will be required to hire an electrician even if your work meets code.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:52 PM   #81
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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Also, just curious, how are you guys going to replace that main breaker and SE cable? That means cutting the POCO seal and removing the meter. (working around live wires of course)

seems / is pretty dangerous to me. In general, how does one even attempt to work on something like this when it is live?
I took my seal off months ago. I'm not concerned. Once the main is off and the meter head is pulled, there's not much to worry about.

Plus it's my father in law doing it, not me. He knows what he's doing.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:54 PM   #82
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


And I don't have a meter reader. I have a guy that drives around in his truck once a month picking up the signal from my meter.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:31 AM   #83
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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And I don't have a meter reader. I have a guy that drives around in his truck once a month picking up the signal from my meter.
If that is true, then your meter will automatically "tattle" and send a signal that it has been pulled from it's socket. Don't mess with this new generation of electric meters.
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:03 AM   #84
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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Junkcollector, whats more amazing is why more houses don't burn down because of "things kludged together". My first winter in my current house was unusually cold and the water well froze up. I decide to add an electrical outlet to the well house for a heater. Well within my capabilities as a DIYer. I opened a sub-panel (with no main) close by and the 6 ga. feed wiring was as follows: Neutral - black, one leg - red, second leg white. No ground. The breakers all had a white wire connected and the black was connected to the neutral bar. I opened an outlet, and it was wired as follows: black to the narrow slit and white to the wide slit (that was proper but wrong in this case). I then opened the main panel and could not find a white wire connected to a breaker. In fact, I could not find a 6 ga wire anywhere in the panel. I clipped the POCO seal and opened the meter box and the sub-panel feeder went directly from the meter panel to the sub-panel, no fuses or breakers. I pulled the meter (I followed proper procedure for pulling a meter) disconnected the sub-panel, and called a licensed electrician. Once the seal was cut I knew I had to pull a permit to get a new seal and in my area only a licensed electrician can pull a permit.
Exactly. One thing that really scared me is when I saw my neighbor doing the exact thing that you mentioned! He connected his "feeder" to is garage directly to the meter. I almost called the POCO right there. No permit, no inspection. Funny thing is that they replaced our meters with the self reading type after that. I don't think they didn't even noticed the missing seal.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:25 PM   #85
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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Exactly. One thing that really scared me is when I saw my neighbor doing the exact thing that you mentioned! He connected his "feeder" to is garage directly to the meter. I almost called the POCO right there. No permit, no inspection. Funny thing is that they replaced our meters with the self reading type after that. I don't think they didn't even noticed the missing seal.
Nothing against my brothers (cousins?) in the power distribution field, but I think it is not so much that they don't notice...It is that they don't care. I have never gotten in trouble for pulling a meter.

Andy
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Old 11-27-2007, 04:06 PM   #86
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


I replaced my uncle's panel in '87 or '88 - it was a split buss FPE. Installed a Murray with a 100a main. Snipped the seal and pulled the meter and did the job. Reinstalled the meter, and to this day, the seal is still dangling there exactly how I left it.
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:13 PM   #87
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


I am doing some remodeling (building an attached garage) and my meter reader noticed the missing seal the next time he read the meter after the seal was removed. I explained to him that a licensed electrician removed the seal. The POCO will replace the seal when the final electrical inspection is done.
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:18 PM   #88
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


So what is the end result? Did he threaten to pull the meter? 'Cause the seal was cut?
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:42 PM   #89
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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So what is the end result? Did he threaten to pull the meter? 'Cause the seal was cut?
No he didn't threaten to remove the meter. I pointed to my building permit sign (in my area a sign with the permit # must be displayed on the job site). I tape all inspection stickers to that sign. One of the inspection stickers was for approval of the electrical rough in. I have had the same meter reader for years and if I had removed the seal without a permit he probably would have brought a new seal next month. Since I have a permit, that wasn't necessary. I am not sure why they read the meter monthly, I pay a flat rate for electricity regardless of the amount I use. They could read it every 6 months or so with the same effect.
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Old 11-27-2007, 07:10 PM   #90
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Unique problem - House main trips, but nothing else - only when dryer is on


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I'm not an electrician. i figured I'd get that out there. I know some stuff about it, I have run it throuout my house. I don't know code, the mathematics behind it, etc.

That being said, here is the problem I'm having.

In the last couple months my 150 amp main breaker has been tripping. It started out with a slight burning smell in the basement. I sniffed and traced it to my circuit breaker panel. One of the the two legs that come into the panel box gets very hot. I couldn't figure out anything that could be wrong at first. I made sure the lugs were tightened down.

One day I noticed that it only seemed to happen when my dryer is running. So one day I touched the black leg going into the breaker box and it was cold. I walked over to my dryer and turned it on. Within the 15 seconds it took me to walk back over to the circuit panel, the one leg was already warm to the touch. Within about 10 minutes it was too hot to even touch. Then as had been happening, the 150 amp main breaker tripped.

Does this sound like anything that any of you have heard of before? In my experience the smaller breaker will trip first if there's a problem. I spoke to my local Wolberg and they told me there's a thermal trip in the main, so the heat is what is making it trip in the forst place. They told me that replacing the 150 amp breaker was an option, but I fail to see how that would keep the incoming leg from getting so hot.

Oh, and this circuit isn't one that I installed or otherwise altered in the three years that I've lived in this house.

Thank for any help that any of you can give me.

Bill
Call an Electrician.

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