Ungrounded Outlets - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-13-2008, 10:00 PM   #1
Dr. Do-Little
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Ungrounded outlets


I am purchasing a house with all ungrounded outlets in the basement. What are my choices shy of having an electrician rewire all the outlets and ground them. Can I have a GFCI breaker installed in the panel? The panel is located in the basement. The lender requires that the basement outlets be grounded.

Advertisement

RJ75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:08 PM   #2
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,992
Rewards Points: 2,782
Default

Ungrounded outlets


Installling a GFI breaker will allow 3 prong receptacles to be installed. This does not make them grounded.

What wiring method is used in the basement?

Since the panel is in the basement run new wiring with a ground.

Advertisement

Jim Port is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:31 PM   #3
Electrician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Ungrounded outlets


I would also just rewire the receptacles in the basement. But you could just install gfci protection as an alternative.
chris75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:34 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Termite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,520
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Ungrounded outlets


There's no way to fake a GFCI receptacle. You're just going to have to re-wire with a ground.
Termite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:58 PM   #5
Dr. Do-Little
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Ungrounded outlets


What would be the best solution to solve the lenders requirement of grounded outlets. Currently they are 3 prong open grounds with no GFCI protection. Can the outlets be grounded without the expense of rewiring them all?
RJ75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 11:17 PM   #6
Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,159
Rewards Points: 534
Default

Ungrounded outlets


If your lender wants a true grounded plug then the only way to do it is by rewiring everything, which could turn in to a big expense.

I would ask if they would be happy if you GFI protected the plus, by either putting in a GFI breaker or using GFI plugs. This is a code compliant way of allowing you to put grounded plugs in.

A GFI compares how much current is comeing in on the hot to what is leaving on the neutral. If they are the same the GFI is happy and works like normal. Lets say you become the path to ground, current will come in but will leave through you(path of least of resistance) and the neutral will see a drop in the current and will cause the GFI to trip.

A GFI does not give you an equipment ground. Lets say you have your washer plugged into a GFI and a hot wires comes loose and comes in contact with the metal case. In a plug with a true ground this would cause the breaker to trip because the metal case is connected to ground. On a GFI plug without ground the metal caseing will stay energized until if finds a path back to ground, most likely a person touching it.

I hope this clears up the two options that you have.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 06:34 AM   #7
When is fishing season?
 
CowboyAndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 613
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Ungrounded outlets


GFI protection is the only legal (NEC code-wise) alternative to rewiring when you want 3 prong outlets. If you don't need 3 prong outlets, then they do sell new 2 prong outlets, but it doesn't seem that is what you are inquiring about.

Honestly, I'm not sure why the lender requires then to have an equiptment ground present. I personally have never heard of that with the mortgage companys that I have dealt with, but I guess they all have their different things.

If they require ALL the outlets in the house to be grounded, then you are looking at a very large expense... but really no way to give you a solid # because it would have alot to do with where you are located, how big the house is, etc. I would look for another lender if that is the case.
__________________
I DON'T OWN MY HOUSE...
MY HOUSE OWNS ME!
CowboyAndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 10:51 AM   #8
Licensed Electrician
 
jrclen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central wisconsin
Posts: 982
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Ungrounded outlets


Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ75 View Post
What would be the best solution to solve the lenders requirement of grounded outlets. Currently they are 3 prong open grounds with no GFCI protection. Can the outlets be grounded without the expense of rewiring them all?
The receptacle outlets cannot be grounded without rewiring them. Depending on which code you are required to follow, chances are you will be required to rewire them with a ground AND gfci protect them at the same time, if you have an unfinished basement.
__________________
John
jrclen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Souther California
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Ungrounded outlets


The building was built in 1960 thus all ungrounded outlets. A few questions and i aploogise if any are repeats but all important to perhaps hear a second time.

1. From what I;'ve read on this forum I am not in any violation of code. Confiorm pls.
2. I did replace some outlets with 3-prong giving the impression they are grounded. should I switch back to 2-prong?
3. The floor is carpet over concrete. Any hazard?
4. Could I simply replace each 2-prong outlet with a GFI and if something went wrong it would simply trip the GFI???
4. If outlets are 2-prong how do people with 3-prong devices plug it into our outlets?

Thanks
Roger3125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 07:02 PM   #10
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,955
Rewards Points: 2,306
Default

Ungrounded outlets


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger3125 View Post
The building was built in 1960 thus all ungrounded outlets. A few questions and i aploogise if any are repeats but all important to perhaps hear a second time.

1. From what I;'ve read on this forum I am not in any violation of code. Confiorm pls.

No. Usually comes into play when remodeling.

2. I did replace some outlets with 3-prong giving the impression they are grounded. should I switch back to 2-prong?

Yes. Without a ground, you have created a violation, unless you protect it with a gfci and label no equipment ground.


3. The floor is carpet over concrete. Any hazard?

Could be considered finished and not require GFCI's.


4. Could I simply replace each 2-prong outlet with a GFI and if something went wrong it would simply trip the GFI???

Yes! You could also replace with a GFCI breaker.


4. If outlets are 2-prong how do people with 3-prong devices plug it into our outlets?

Cheater plugs tha have a side to accept 3 prong and plug into a 2 prong outlet.

Thanks
You are welcome!
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"

Last edited by jbfan; 04-05-2009 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Added info that 220/221 stated.
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 07:08 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Ungrounded outlets


Quote:
The lender requires that the basement outlets be grounded.
Or, GFCI protected as per NEC.

If your panel (brand) will accept a GFCI breaker, that is usually the way to go unless the home run happens to go to a receptacle. Then a GFCI recep would be preferable.

Roger.

3 prong receps can be installed if the circuit is protected by a GFCI device/breaker. The receps are also supposed to be labeled "No equipment ground" but they usually are not.
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Ungrounded outlets


It's best to start a new thread when asking a question
Many people will read the 1st post & see that people are answering the question & may not assist

Replacing each outlet is not needed
You just need the 1st outlet as a GFCI, then the rest are connected to the LOAD side of that GFCI
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 07:51 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,543
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Ungrounded outlets


You mentioned that it was built in 1960. There is the possibility you may have a ground present. Are your outlets wired by a flexible metal jacket cable, if so, is there a small aluminum wire sticking out the back of the connectors?
rgsgww is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 07:51 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New Orleans,LA
Posts: 128
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Ungrounded outlets


this thread is over a year old....
Quote:
You just need the 1st outlet as a GFCI, then the rest are connected to the LOAD side of that GFCI
this would require some hunting....i'd do what 220 said, just use a gfi breaker in this situ and mark them as gfi protected and no equip. ground

Advertisement

NolaTigaBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about wiring outlets together firemanpato Electrical 5 01-05-2008 04:52 PM
Problem W/ Power after Switching Outlets... G19-Fanatic Electrical 17 08-28-2006 02:55 PM
Replacing light killed downstream outlets, totally stuck amissner Electrical 5 07-13-2006 07:02 AM
two GFCI outlets at bath vanity Hickory Electrical 6 12-18-2005 10:31 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts