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RJ75 05-13-2008 09:00 PM

Ungrounded outlets
 
I am purchasing a house with all ungrounded outlets in the basement. What are my choices shy of having an electrician rewire all the outlets and ground them. Can I have a GFCI breaker installed in the panel? The panel is located in the basement. The lender requires that the basement outlets be grounded.

Jim Port 05-13-2008 09:08 PM

Installling a GFI breaker will allow 3 prong receptacles to be installed. This does not make them grounded.

What wiring method is used in the basement?

Since the panel is in the basement run new wiring with a ground.

chris75 05-13-2008 09:31 PM

I would also just rewire the receptacles in the basement. But you could just install gfci protection as an alternative.

Termite 05-13-2008 09:34 PM

There's no way to fake a GFCI receptacle. You're just going to have to re-wire with a ground.

RJ75 05-13-2008 09:58 PM

Ungrounded outlets
 
What would be the best solution to solve the lenders requirement of grounded outlets. Currently they are 3 prong open grounds with no GFCI protection. Can the outlets be grounded without the expense of rewiring them all?

darren 05-13-2008 10:17 PM

If your lender wants a true grounded plug then the only way to do it is by rewiring everything, which could turn in to a big expense.

I would ask if they would be happy if you GFI protected the plus, by either putting in a GFI breaker or using GFI plugs. This is a code compliant way of allowing you to put grounded plugs in.

A GFI compares how much current is comeing in on the hot to what is leaving on the neutral. If they are the same the GFI is happy and works like normal. Lets say you become the path to ground, current will come in but will leave through you(path of least of resistance) and the neutral will see a drop in the current and will cause the GFI to trip.

A GFI does not give you an equipment ground. Lets say you have your washer plugged into a GFI and a hot wires comes loose and comes in contact with the metal case. In a plug with a true ground this would cause the breaker to trip because the metal case is connected to ground. On a GFI plug without ground the metal caseing will stay energized until if finds a path back to ground, most likely a person touching it.

I hope this clears up the two options that you have.

CowboyAndy 05-14-2008 05:34 AM

GFI protection is the only legal (NEC code-wise) alternative to rewiring when you want 3 prong outlets. If you don't need 3 prong outlets, then they do sell new 2 prong outlets, but it doesn't seem that is what you are inquiring about.

Honestly, I'm not sure why the lender requires then to have an equiptment ground present. I personally have never heard of that with the mortgage companys that I have dealt with, but I guess they all have their different things.

If they require ALL the outlets in the house to be grounded, then you are looking at a very large expense... but really no way to give you a solid # because it would have alot to do with where you are located, how big the house is, etc. I would look for another lender if that is the case.

jrclen 05-14-2008 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ75 (Post 123051)
What would be the best solution to solve the lenders requirement of grounded outlets. Currently they are 3 prong open grounds with no GFCI protection. Can the outlets be grounded without the expense of rewiring them all?

The receptacle outlets cannot be grounded without rewiring them. Depending on which code you are required to follow, chances are you will be required to rewire them with a ground AND gfci protect them at the same time, if you have an unfinished basement.

Roger3125 04-05-2009 05:34 PM

2 prong ungrounded outlets.
 
The building was built in 1960 thus all ungrounded outlets. A few questions and i aploogise if any are repeats but all important to perhaps hear a second time.

1. From what I;'ve read on this forum I am not in any violation of code. Confiorm pls.
2. I did replace some outlets with 3-prong giving the impression they are grounded. should I switch back to 2-prong?
3. The floor is carpet over concrete. Any hazard?
4. Could I simply replace each 2-prong outlet with a GFI and if something went wrong it would simply trip the GFI???
4. If outlets are 2-prong how do people with 3-prong devices plug it into our outlets?

Thanks

jbfan 04-05-2009 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger3125 (Post 255463)
The building was built in 1960 thus all ungrounded outlets. A few questions and i aploogise if any are repeats but all important to perhaps hear a second time.

1. From what I;'ve read on this forum I am not in any violation of code. Confiorm pls.

No. Usually comes into play when remodeling.

2. I did replace some outlets with 3-prong giving the impression they are grounded. should I switch back to 2-prong?

Yes. Without a ground, you have created a violation, unless you protect it with a gfci and label no equipment ground.


3. The floor is carpet over concrete. Any hazard?

Could be considered finished and not require GFCI's.


4. Could I simply replace each 2-prong outlet with a GFI and if something went wrong it would simply trip the GFI???

Yes! You could also replace with a GFCI breaker.


4. If outlets are 2-prong how do people with 3-prong devices plug it into our outlets?

Cheater plugs tha have a side to accept 3 prong and plug into a 2 prong outlet.

Thanks

You are welcome!

220/221 04-05-2009 06:08 PM

Quote:

The lender requires that the basement outlets be grounded.
Or, GFCI protected as per NEC.

If your panel (brand) will accept a GFCI breaker, that is usually the way to go unless the home run happens to go to a receptacle. Then a GFCI recep would be preferable.

Roger.

3 prong receps can be installed if the circuit is protected by a GFCI device/breaker. The receps are also supposed to be labeled "No equipment ground" but they usually are not.

Scuba_Dave 04-05-2009 06:48 PM

It's best to start a new thread when asking a question
Many people will read the 1st post & see that people are answering the question & may not assist

Replacing each outlet is not needed
You just need the 1st outlet as a GFCI, then the rest are connected to the LOAD side of that GFCI

rgsgww 04-05-2009 06:51 PM

You mentioned that it was built in 1960. There is the possibility you may have a ground present. Are your outlets wired by a flexible metal jacket cable, if so, is there a small aluminum wire sticking out the back of the connectors?

NolaTigaBait 04-05-2009 06:51 PM

this thread is over a year old....
Quote:

You just need the 1st outlet as a GFCI, then the rest are connected to the LOAD side of that GFCI
this would require some hunting....i'd do what 220 said, just use a gfi breaker in this situ and mark them as gfi protected and no equip. ground


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