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Old 01-06-2011, 04:53 PM   #16
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underground electric under pond


I'm surprised the county would allow a pond to be constructed over a service lateral . In my area that is a big no no. And it would be hugely dangerous if the service lateral severed under that pond. With a little luck only the cows would pay the price.

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Old 01-06-2011, 05:35 PM   #17
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Does the transformer on the pole feed the house.
If so you have 440V under your pond. The transformer is a step down transformer that steps the 440 down to 220/210 etc.

Now if the wires were to break or have a bare spot some how it will seek its "source', THE TRANSFORMER or power lines..
The earth between the pond water and the transformer has resistance. This will cause voltage to be generated between the transformer/power lines and the energized pond. NOT GOOD!!!!.
The only reason there are (EGC) called ground rods is for lightening protection.

Last edited by Hourglass52; 01-06-2011 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Hourglass52 View Post
Does the transformer on the pole feed the house.
If so you have 440V under your pond. The transformer is a step down transformer that steps the 440 down to 220/210 etc.....
More like 7200 or 14,400. Utility transformers generally are not 440 -220

I would not want to "swim" in such a pond
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:31 PM   #19
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So why don't we install one'a them fancy bonding grids between the pond and the wire?
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:23 AM   #20
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Do what ever you want but::

1. Get good liability insurance.
2. Get good life insurance on who ever swims in the pond. Or runs around it.
3. Practice bending over and grabbing your ankles.


When it comes to electricity and water strange stuff can happen.
Just Google

Electric Shock Drowning Incidents
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:42 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by nap View Post
that is a really really wrong answer.
Really,..??

Are you saying a 220v feed will travel through 13' of mud, then another 10' of water, to injure somebody,..??

If so, I know of some seashore property for sale in Arizona....

I have property at a small lake in the adirondacks,..
There's an underwater conduit that travels across the bottom of the lake,...
Electrical cable laying on the bottom, 'n a steel conduit near shore...
This is a 14,400v cable....

So in you guy's Theory , the Whole Lake should be closed to fishing, 'n swimming,..??
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:10 AM   #22
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I my opinion!!

I just don't want to go out like I am in a bug zapper.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
Really,..??

Are you saying a 220v feed will travel through 13' of mud, then another 10' of water, to injure somebody,..??

If so, I know of some seashore property for sale in Arizona....

I have property at a small lake in the adirondacks,..
There's an underwater conduit that travels across the bottom of the lake,...
Electrical cable laying on the bottom, 'n a steel conduit near shore...
This is a 14,400v cable....

So in you guy's Theory , the Whole Lake should be closed to fishing, 'n swimming,..??
I really think it is a waste of time to convince you that you haven't done your homework on the dangers of voltage gradients and how little amperage it takes to injure or kill cattle or human beings. It is quite common for severed underground neutrals to move current many yards if not thousands of feet to get back to a source.
You also need to do your homework on underwater power cable installed in conduits. You just might find out that it is not comparable to residential laterals in pvc conduit and the monitoring and gfpe that is used on those lines.
No the lake should not be closed to swimming or fishing, but you need to do a little research as to why that is the case. However if some act of god severed that underwater cable of 14,400 volts or whatever figure you decided it needs to be I wouldn't want to be in the water anywhere near it if all the safeties failed.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
E=Bondo;564545]Really,..??
yes, really.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
Really,..??

Are you saying a 220v feed will travel through 13' of mud, then another 10' of water, to injure somebody,..??

If so, I know of some seashore property for sale in Arizona....

I have property at a small lake in the adirondacks,..
There's an underwater conduit that travels across the bottom of the lake,...
Electrical cable laying on the bottom, 'n a steel conduit near shore...
This is a 14,400v cable....

So in you guy's Theory , the Whole Lake should be closed to fishing, 'n swimming,..??

YES MOST CERTAINLY if there was a fault in that cable it would energize the water where voltage gradenients would become dangerous. I don't care if there is 10 foot of mud it's wet. And this myth that electricity tries to find it's way to ground it just false. Electricity doesn't flow downhill. Juice tries to get back to its source. Because the source is grounded, yes the ground is one HIGH resistance way back. Also the myth that electricity takes that path of least resistance is WRONG- it takes ALL paths. Which is one of the reasons it is dangerous to bond your neutral and ground buss in a sub panel.


As I said before this is a question only local authority can answer. They may allow this install but I don't like it one bit. pools are dangerous.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jason7858 View Post
if the wire was to short out its already in the ground...the electricity should not go up in to the water through a person then back in to the ground? wouldnt it just go right in to the ground where the break in the wire was? remember this is 23 ft in the ground...13 ft lower than the bottom of the pond
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondo View Post
Nope,... But I stayed in a Holiday Inn once, 'n I have a Doctorate Degree from the University of Life, in Common Sense....

As you stated, the power line is 13' Below, underground, from the bottom of a mud pond....

Electricty is Lazy,...
It don't like travelin', 'n goes Directly to Ground, as quickly as possible...

Even if the line was completely Severed, Nobody swimming in the pond would be in Any danger, what so ever....
WRONG electricity is more than happy to travel up, and it likes water very much and will go outta is way to find it.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:56 AM   #27
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thanks for all the input....well the way i see it is the conduit would have to go bad, then the wire and then someone would have to be swimming at that exact moment right? because if it shorts out any other time the fuse on the pole would blow or the fish would all be floating..i think i have a better chance of winning the lotto or getting het by lightning
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:15 AM   #28
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also everyone says it goes back to the source the easiest way? wouldnt the easiest path back to the source be the bare wire that runs with the other two wires?
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:37 AM   #29
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While I would tend to agree it's 'likely safe', I wouldn't bet my life on it, let alone someone elses. As for electricity taking the shortest path straight down, no one here was hit directly.
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Old 01-10-2011, 02:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jason7858 View Post
also everyone says it goes back to the source the easiest way? wouldnt the easiest path back to the source be the bare wire that runs with the other two wires?
Electricity does not take "the easiest path" back to the source. If that were true, then we could only operate one load at a time in our houses (think about it). Electricity travels on ALL paths simultaneously, with current inversely proportional to the resistance of each path. Ohm's law dictates this. When analyzing the flow of electricity through a bulk resistive medium (like water, or the earth), determining current density and potential gradient at any point becomes a challenging calculus problem. These are the kinds of things professors put on physics tests to frustrate students.

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