Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-14-2009, 09:59 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Question

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


I tried searching for the answers but came up empty.

Assume 2008 version of NEC (if you know the 2005 was different please note that).

Question 1: (Circuit Breaker Labels)
In a newly built home, is the electrician required to label all breakers in the load center?

Question 2: (Junction Boxes)
Can the inside of a light fixture count as a junction box? For example, the visually appealing hollywood lights in a bathroom have a huge internal space for wiring. Can an electrician skip the junction box in the wall and just run the romex into the light fixture as long as the splices are done inside the light fixture and not the wall?


PS: God bless electricians. I work with state and federal regulations all day and the regulations look like Dr. Seuss compared to the NEC.

Nozler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 10:05 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


I'm not aware of any code which requires breakers to be labelled
That is usually a contract/purchase issue

A light fixture may be used as a junction box IF it is rated to be used as one

Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 10:09 AM   #3
Member
 
dSilanskas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 474
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Question 1. Yes the panel must be labled

Question 2. If the light says it can be used as a JB than yes you can.
dSilanskas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 10:11 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by dSilanskas View Post
Question 1. Yes the panel must be labled
Do you know the specific code requiring that?
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 10:19 AM   #5
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


In the 2005 NEC, the Code article is 408.4 for labeling. As far as using the interior of a light for wiring space.... Well, I have done it. I have drilled a hole to accept a connector and popped an MC whip into a strip vanity light. I don't imagine the thing is listed for it, but I personally don't see a problem as long as a connector is used and the light has a back plate.
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 10:24 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Thanks!!

I just looked and its the same under 2008
Another thing my electrician did not do when my panel was replaced

I use an Excel Spreadsheet which is then attached to the wall beside the breaker panel. Once the house/addition are complete I'll fill in the panel door
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 10:28 AM   #7
Electrical Contractor
 
wirenut1110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chester, VA.
Posts: 1,049
Rewards Points: 500
Send a message via AIM to wirenut1110
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Just to add, 408.4 in the 08 code added some wording to include labeling "spares" and "no circuit shall be described in a manner that depends on transient conditions of occupancy"

I take this to mean something like "Recept Jim's room" or "new ceiling lights"
wirenut1110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 11:48 AM   #8
DIY'r
 
ScottR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hicksville, NY (Yes, it's an actual town).
Posts: 520
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by wirenut1110 View Post
I take this to mean something like "Recept Jim's room" or "new ceiling lights"
I like that rule. In the house I bought, the "Guest Bedroom" is now the den, and the "Office" is now the guest bedroom. Until I re-labeled the panel, that was confusing. They also called the "Living Room" the den.
ScottR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 12:07 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Yeah, my last house had 3 bedrooms & they were labeled by the kids name
I label by "Front corner room" & indicate 1st or 2nd floor
Back corner room, Middle back room, Kitchen - pretty easy
Main front room, Sunroom, Dining room

That's why I like my spreadsheet, I can be very descriptive
It also includes guage of the wire & breaker size
Since I have an older house (50's) outlets are mixed up in different rooms
I also label new wire or old cloth wire runs
Circuits that are "full" or dedicated runs are in yellow - Do Not Add

It's helped a lot in keeping track of runs/circuits
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 08:24 PM   #10
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,094
Rewards Points: 2,982
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


You should see the labels in some of the panels at work. Only people who have worked there for 20 years can interpret them. Joe Smiths office on label indicates a guy who left the company 15 years ago.
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 08:46 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW of D.C.
Posts: 5,990
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


A record of what outlet is upstream of what outlet would come in handy but it's best done before the drywall is up.
You can figure it out with a 10A load and DVM but it is tedious.
Yoyizit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 09:02 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 145
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
A record of what outlet is upstream of what outlet would come in handy but it's best done before the drywall is up.
You can figure it out with a 10A load and DVM but it is tedious.
I had taken pics of all the electrical and plumbing for our house while being built so I would know where everything was. Only problem was my hard drive crashed that the pics were on, all gone. Shame on me for not putting them on another form of backup.
Plumbvoltage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 09:57 PM   #13
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumbvoltage View Post
Shame on me for not putting them on another form of backup.
No, shame on you for not wiring in a manner that would allow a logical deduction of where the circuits go, even with sheetrock up. I try to combine things similarly. So the dining room and breakfast nook are on the same circuit. The bathroom recepts get a circuit. The lights get their own circuits, etc.
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2009, 10:12 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 145
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
No, shame on you for not wiring in a manner that would allow a logical deduction of where the circuits go, even with sheetrock up. I try to combine things similarly. So the dining room and breakfast nook are on the same circuit. The bathroom recepts get a circuit. The lights get their own circuits, etc.
The electrician did a great job wiring it and you can tell where the circuits go.

It was just nice to know exactly which direction the wires went and which way the pipes went for possible future work.
Plumbvoltage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2009, 01:11 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 1,002
Rewards Points: 506
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

Two Quick NEC Code Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I use an Excel Spreadsheet which is then attached to the wall beside the breaker panel. Once the house/addition are complete I'll fill in the panel door
I believe to be code compliant your spreadsheet label must be on the inside of the panel door or on the face of the panel cover, not on the wall next to it. This may be a jurisdictional thing, as my inspector said that I couldn't have it on the wall next to the panel (even though it was close enough that the paper and the tape was actually touching the panel). I like the spreadsheet idea myself, I only indicate the ampacity of the circuit and the function, all the breakers match the wire size of the entire circuit (at least as far as I know).

theatretch85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
couple of code questions ponch37300 Electrical 9 01-26-2009 11:45 AM
Handrail building code questions - Canada Peterpantz Carpentry 7 10-26-2008 01:24 PM
Quick cabinet painting questions jimithing78 Painting 2 08-20-2008 01:46 AM
Michigan code questions rondo Electrical 1 12-22-2005 11:37 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.