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Old 05-23-2013, 11:28 AM   #121
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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but my kids will be the first to say i cannot spell worth a you know what ....LOL
Philly... I'm with you on this one.... my kids say I can't spell worth a ph_q either......


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Old 05-23-2013, 11:29 AM   #122
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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I am a member there ....


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This only applies if an occupancy sensor is used for the habitable room. Otherwise you can mount the switch wherever your heart desires. This is the exception when the sensor is used.
correct !!!!

and the exception is ...

(2) located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.

and the MANUaL over ride needs to be in the customary location is case the sensor fails correct ???

so you would still have the switch in the location stated in
210.70


(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.


since the exception is for that line of code ... and would still need to meet that criteria ......
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #123
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Wall switch controlled is an adjective modifying the object lighting outlet. You cannot apply something that only applies to occupancy sensors and apply it across the board to everthing else.

Inspite of several people on this site, and two links to independant sites you still continue to misunderstand what the code actually calls for. I am sorry that you cannot be convinced that you are misreading the code.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:52 AM   #124
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Wall switch controlled is an adjective modifying the object lighting outlet. You cannot apply something that only applies to occupancy sensors and apply it across the board to everthing else.

Inspite of several people on this site, and two links to independant sites you still continue to misunderstand what the code actually calls for. I am sorry that you cannot be convinced that you are misreading the code.
the exception is about the switching NOT the lighting outlet ... hence you are allowed to replace the SWITCH with an occupancy sensr provided that you meet the critia of the exception ...

LMAO ....

correct a switch modifies a lighting outlet ... ON or OFF ...

just because someone says something i do not go with the pack for the sake of going with the pack.

in other discussions .. the mike holt thing was shot down ....but now it is not ...
or other sites ...


bottom line as i siad before .. there are references to where switches are to be placed in the NEC ..period ....and that is where we started ...
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Last edited by Philly Master; 05-23-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:21 PM   #125
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


You cannot show me where the switch location is spelled out for a habitable room, unless an occupancy sensor is used. This is not like where the code spells out the location of a disconnect as within sight and 50'. Another exampler of the code specifying things would be the workspace requirements for equipment like panel or the maximum height of the topmost breaker handle.


I would not say that the discussion at Mike Holt was shot down either. There were some that had the same impression as yourself. There were several that told them the code did not say what they thought it said. The Nachi site also says that the code is silent regarding the switch location. Many, myself included, agree that a switch mounted in other than the customary location would be unorthodox and less than convenient. That does not mean the code is violated. This is strictly a design issue.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:40 PM   #126
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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There are no codes for switches to be required in rooms/halls/stairs that enter/exit....
REMEBER we started here ... not to pick on Mr. stickboy ...

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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
You cannot show me where the switch location is spelled out for a habitable room, unless an occupancy sensor is used. This is not like where the code spells out the location of a disconnect as within sight and 50'. Another exampler of the code specifying things would be the workspace requirements for equipment like panel or the maximum height of the topmost breaker handle.


I would not say that the discussion at Mike Holt was shot down either. There were some that had the same impression as yourself. There were several that told them the code did not say what they thought it said. The Nachi site also says that the code is silent regarding the switch location. Many, myself included, agree that a switch mounted in other than the customary location would be unorthodox and less than convenient. That does not mean the code is violated. This is strictly a design issue.
yes there are many things in the NFPA 70 that are less than worded correctly ... LOL

i do manitain is is somewhat addressed ...

because ..

(2) Additional Locations. Additional lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with (A)(2)(a), (A)(2)(b), and (A)(2)(c)

a) At least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways, attached garages, and detached garages with electric power.

(b) For dwelling units, attached garages, and detached garages with electric power, at least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed to provide illumination on the exterior side of outdoor entrances or exits with grade level access. A vehicle door in a garage shall not be considered as an outdoor entrance or exit.

this would prevent you from putting the switch anywhere else but in that room or space .. ie ie so putting the switch in the basement would be a violation ..

now a hallway is defined in the NEC.



and the authors/persons responsible of the code put there comment on it in the post ..

Two light switches in-line to lights?
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:44 PM   #127
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


I would like to thank the Moderators for allowing this to continue ... and to thank all that spoke up for keeping it clean, informative and good ....
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:45 PM   #128
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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(b) For dwelling units, attached garages, and detached garages with electric power, at least one wall switch–controlled lighting outlet shall be installed to provide illumination on the exterior side of outdoor entrances or exits with grade level access. A vehicle door in a garage shall not be considered as an outdoor entrance or exit.
Is saying that illumination is needed at exterior doorways. It again does not say where the switch needs to be.

Keep trying, but you continue to confuse the location of the lighting outlet with a requirement for a switch location.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:55 PM   #129
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


its circular now i'm done .. I agree to disagree ...
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:01 PM   #130
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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and the authors/persons responsible of the code put there comment on it in the post ..

Two light switches in-line to lights?
If you read the MH link you will see that a change was submitted to codify the switch location. The code making panels have rejected the submissions on the basis of the design issue not being a code issue.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:40 PM   #131
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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its circular now i'm done .. I agree to disagree ...
You keep bringing up that a switched lighting outlet is required, we all know this. So tell us where the switch location part comes in????
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:45 PM   #132
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Here is a basement on a kitchen/dining rooom renovation job that I'm starting to wrap up, yep, all the switches in the basement...









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Old 05-23-2013, 06:53 PM   #133
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Comon Stick.... That's interesting.... tell us why this design... Please
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:09 PM   #134
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Comon Stick.... That's interesting.... tell us why this design... Please
Lighting system by Lutron, Radio Ra 2. Think how ugly the wall would look will all those switches up in the kitchen, never mind the confusion, with this system, I can program scenes with a touch of a button on a keypad, tabletop, iPad, iPhone, etc... its very cool. We sell a lot of these, it's not super expensive for the type of clients we do work for, and they are pretty impressive. imagine coming home touching one button in your car visor and having all your interior lights come on, welcoming you home.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:33 PM   #135
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Lighting system by Lutron, Radio Ra 2. Think how ugly the wall would look will all those switches up in the kitchen, never mind the confusion, with this system, I can program scenes with a touch of a button on a keypad, tabletop, iPad, iPhone, etc... its very cool. We sell a lot of these, it's not super expensive for the type of clients we do work for, and they are pretty impressive. imagine coming home touching one button in your car visor and having all your interior lights come on, welcoming you home.
Neat.... What kinda price (equipment) parameters are involved and THANKS

Peter

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