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Old 05-21-2013, 02:00 PM   #61
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Rose.... I just spent the last two hours studying all your posts, and from yoyur linguistic style, your composition and subject orientation.... I'm willing to bet (nominal sum) that I can guess the day you were born ..say within 6 1/2 years.

Peter

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Old 05-21-2013, 02:04 PM   #62
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Article 210.70 only says that lighting outlets need to be installed in certain rooms of which a switched receptacle would satisfy. Other rooms(kitchens and bathrooms) the switched receptacle is not acceptable and the lighting outlet is required.

Agreed

BTW, there is no requirement for a fixture to be installed at the lighting outlet.

The location of the switch is silent except for a few select locations like the attic, basements, and some stair landings.

Agreed.. And there is a requirement for the location of the switch....

Someone could install all the other switches in one room and still satisfy the NEC.

I will paraphrase the Charlie B rule for you. Sometimes the NEC does not say what you think it says.
So what are the exceptions that,I pointed out mean ????
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:59 PM   #63
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Rose.... I just spent the last two hours studying all your posts, and from yoyur linguistic style, your composition and subject orientation.... I'm willing to bet (nominal sum) that I can guess the day you were born ..say within 6 1/2 years.
Were you one of those guessers at Six Flags that guessed birthdate, age or weight? OK shoot.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:06 PM   #64
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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So what are the exceptions that,I pointed out mean ????
You quoted them on page 3 of this thread.
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(c) Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entryway, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.
(3) Storage or Equipment Spaces. For attics, underfloor spaces, utility rooms, and basements, at least one lighting outlet containing a switch or controlled by a wall switch shall be installed where these spaces are used for storage or contain equipment requiring servicing. At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces. The lighting outlet shall be provided at or near the equipment requiring servicing.
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The location of the switch only applies to what I have highlighted in your quote in blue, nowhere else.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:27 PM   #65
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Were you one of those guessers at Six Flags that guessed birthdate, age or weight? OK shoot.
Monday (actually I'm very accurate within 3 Days) All about assumptions we make ...and toggle switches on the wall.

Best Regards

Peter
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:51 PM   #66
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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So what are the exceptions that,I pointed out mean ????
Did you read the headings in the section that you posted? You cant take words after one sub-heading and apply them to another sub heading.... in which you were trying to do, you wanted it to say what you thought was code, so you kept reading it the way you wanted to hear it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:59 PM   #67
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
Your words ....

And simply not true ....210.70(A)(3). At the very least
210.70(A)(3) only applies to Storage or Equipment Spaces, that's why it has its own heading.


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And if you really read 210.70(A)(1) both exceptions #1 and # 2 why are there exceptions ??
Did you actually read that section of the NEC? I don't even know why you are questioning this?

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Exceptions to what .....hee heee hee the wall switch
No, the required lighting outlet

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I go back to 90(C) ........."or an instruction manual for untrained persons"
That would be you. and i'm not trying to insult you, I just want you to really understand what you are reading.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:44 AM   #68
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Did you read the headings in the section that you posted? You cant take words after one sub-heading and apply them to another sub heading.... in which you were trying to do, you wanted it to say what you thought was code, so you kept reading it the way you wanted to hear it.
Yes ...

210.70(A)(1)

Habitable rooms..at least one WALL SWITCH controlled ...IN every habitual room

Exception # 1 basically gets you out of installing a light ....In lue of a switched outlet but it is still a,switch in the room

Exception # 2 ... (1) and (2) both talk about customary location and in addition to WALL switch


Ok all the same code section...all exceptions to 210.70(A)(1)......all about habitable rooms...

2008 code
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:57 AM   #69
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


(1) Habitable Rooms.
At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.



Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be controlled by occupancy sensors that are (1) in addition to wall switches or (2) located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:59 AM   #70
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
Yes ...

210.70(A)(1)

Habitable rooms..at least one WALL SWITCH controlled lighting outlet...IN every habitual room

Exception # 1 basically gets you out of installing a light ....In lue of a switched outlet but it is still a,switch in the room

Exception # 2 ... (1) and (2) both talk about customary location and in addition to WALL switch


Ok all the same code section...all exceptions to 210.70(A)(1)......all about habitable rooms...

2008 code
You can't leave out words that change the entire context of the article. Again, the code is only saying the lighting outlet needs to be installed in habitable rooms. The switch can be anywhere. Like it or not it does not say what you think it does.
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Last edited by Jim Port; 05-22-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:12 AM   #71
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
(1) Habitable Rooms.
At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.



Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be controlled by occupancy sensors that are (1) in addition to wall switches or (2) located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
You can't leave out words that change the entire context of the article. Again, the code is only saying the lighting outlet needs to be installed in habitable rooms. The switch can be anywhere. Like it or not it does not say what you think it does.

There is the whole code ....ONE section only ....Exception (2) (1)

"In addition too".


Or exception (2)(2) ...customary location.....
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:15 AM   #72
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
You can't leave out words that change the entire context of the article. Again, the code is only saying the lighting outlet needs to be installed in habitable rooms. The switch can be anywhere. Like it or not it does not say what you think it does.

Lol now your leaving words it says....one wall switch controlled lighting outlet
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:18 AM   #73
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
Yes ...

210.70(A)(1)

Habitable rooms..at least one WALL SWITCH controlled ...IN every habitual room

Exception # 1 basically gets you out of installing a light ....In lue of a switched outlet but it is still a,switch in the room

Exception # 2 ... (1) and (2) both talk about customary location and in addition to WALL switch


Ok all the same code section...all exceptions to 210.70(A)(1)......all about habitable rooms...

2008 code
Lol, that's not what it is saying, read the entire sentence.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:23 AM   #74
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
(1) Habitable Rooms.
[B]At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.



Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be controlled by occupancy sensors that are (1) in addition to wall switches or (2) located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.
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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Lol, that's not what it is saying, read the entire sentence.

I,did ...
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:25 AM   #75
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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I,did ...
Read it again, it doesn't say a light switch is required. Just a wall controlled switched outlet.

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