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Old 05-20-2013, 01:28 PM   #16
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Stick and Philly.....

I know it's not your guys week to take care of me.... but what the heck am I thinking?

It's so much a part of my thinking, (that you need three-ways at top/bottom of stairs and passage ways and thru ways,) that I could swear it was coded.... could it be IRC or IBC, or maybe old UBC, or could it be some local amendment.

Sorry for any misinfo.... but I really thought it was coded.... but that's what happens when your a 60's kid and get older.

Best
Peter

you are correct .....

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Old 05-20-2013, 01:32 PM   #17
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Show me the code that requires it... I can use circuit breakers if I so wish.


it is/was a test question for master lic. or one of the possible ones ..LOL

210.70(A)(2)(c)
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #18
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
it is/was a test question for master lic. or one of the possible ones ..LOL

210.70(A)(2)(c)
Try re-reading that section, all that is required is a switched controlled lighting outlet, not the switch... that can be located ANYWHERE...

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Old 05-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #19
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post

It's so much a part of my thinking, (that you need three-ways at top/bottom of stairs and passage ways and thru ways,) that I could swear it was coded.... could it be IRC or IBC, or maybe old UBC, or could it be some local amendment.

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Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
you are correct .....
Three ways are not required ANYWHERE in the NEC... I could easily use single pole switches and TWO fixtures, or a single fixture with two separately switched lamps.

Last edited by stickboy1375; 05-20-2013 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:18 PM   #20
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-41

this this may help others to understand ....

so in the picture if there was ONE light guess what ....the switches would be . It is more common sense that anything else ..

also the NEC code is for SAFETY ...NOT DESIGN BOOK ..LMAO....


NEC 90.1(C): This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons. The words speak for themselves.

the defense rests ....
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:21 PM   #21
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-41

this this may help others to understand ....

so in the picture if there was ONE light guess what ....the switches would be . It is more common sense that anything else ..

also the NEC code is for SAFETY ...NOT DESIGN BOOK ..LMAO....


NEC 90.1(C): This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons. The words speak for themselves.

the defense rests ....
That is one way to satisfy the code requirement, three way switches are still not required by the NEC, this isn't hard to follow along...
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:34 PM   #22
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-41

this this may help others to understand ....

so in the picture if there was ONE light guess what ....the switches would be . It is more common sense that anything else ..

also the NEC code is for SAFETY ...NOT DESIGN BOOK ..LMAO....


NEC 90.1(C): This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons. The words speak for themselves.

the defense rests ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
That is one way to satisfy the code requirement, three way switches are still not required by the NEC, this isn't hard to follow along...
Shooooot..... I sure wish I had both you guys with me on an inspection walkthru with my Socal inspector...... You two would blow him away.....
I'd love it.

Thanks ... Peter
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:36 PM   #23
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Shooooot..... I sure wish I had both you guys with me on an inspection walkthru with my Socal inspector...... You two would blow him away.....
I'd love it.

Thanks ... Peter
I know I'm posting items that are on the non common sense side, but the reality of it is, code is code, and the minimum should be known, and allowed. There is nothing wrong with bare minimum.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:48 PM   #24
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Yea.... I guess that's sorta my problem with some code ..... while they try to write it so definitively.... sometimes it gets to be an interpertive issue of what they are trying to say and accomplish.

Sorta seems this issue could almost be reduced/stated : "Code wants adequet and conveniently placed lighting and switches so people don't trip and fall on their ass in stairwells."

However, it does, I'll admit, become an interesting puzzle sometimes in interperting and challenging specific code isues/statements.

If you two were attorneys, I'd want you representing me in court... you both make fine and valid arguments.

Best

Peter
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:51 PM   #25
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Yea.... I guess that's sorta my problem with some code ..... while they try to write it so definitively.... sometimes it gets to be an interpertive issue of what they are trying to say and accomplish.

Sorta seems this issue could almost be reduced/stated : "Code wants adequet and conveniently placed lighting and switches so people don't trip and fall on their ass in stairwells."

However, it does, I'll admit, become an interesting puzzle sometimes in interperting and challenging specific code isues/statements.

If you two were attorneys, I'd want you representing me in court... you both make fine and valid arguments.

Best

Peter
The problem is, people are so used to doing what they are taught, they simply forget to go back to the NEC, I could have every light switched by breakers in a residence if I so desired, it would be a poor design, yet meet code, of course stairwells would be the only issue, I would need a panel top and bottom of the stairs.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:02 PM   #26
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
The problem is, people are so used to doing what they are taught, they simply forget to go back to the NEC, I could have every light switched by breakers in a residence if I so desired, it would be a poor design, yet meet code, of course stairwells would be the only issue, I would need a panel top and bottom of the stairs.
Ironic isn't it.... Yes we need standards, it just seems the minutia sometimes masks/obscures the intent and common sense.... at least to me.


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Old 05-20-2013, 08:23 PM   #27
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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There are no codes for switches to be required in rooms/halls/stairs that enter/exit....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Master View Post
lmao ....what ????
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Show me the code that requires it... I can use circuit breakers if I so wish.

I do not know how 3 ways got into it .. but there is DEFINATLY code that says switches in all those areas and more .... ether switched outlet or light ...

the whole 210.70 c0vers this ..
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:24 PM   #28
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
The problem is, people are so used to doing what they are taught, they simply forget to go back to the NEC, I could have every light switched by breakers in a residence if I so desired, it would be a poor design, yet meet code, of course stairwells would be the only issue, I would need a panel top and bottom of the stairs.
no you could not ....
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:42 PM   #29
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


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no you could not ....
Prove it! Just tell me where in the NEC that a wall switch is required.

210.70 only requires switched lighting outlets. I am not arguing this fact.

http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-s...utlets-part-vi

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Old 05-20-2013, 09:03 PM   #30
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Two light switches in-line to lights?


Posted for informational purposes only not taking a position on either side of the discussion but here is a section on lighting outlets from the 2012 International Residential Code.

IRC 2012
SECTION E3903 LIGHTING OUTLETS

E3903.1 General.
Lighting outlets shall be provided in accordance with Sections E3903.2 through E3903.4.

E3903.2 Habitable rooms.
At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.

Exceptions:

1. In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be considered equivalent to the required lighting outlet.
2. Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be controlled by occupancy sensors that are in addition to wall switches, or that are located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.

E3903.3 Additional locations.
At least one wall-switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways, attached garages, and detached garages with electric power. At least one wall-switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed to provide illumination on the exterior side of each outdoor egress door having grade level access, including outdoor egress doors for attached garages and detached garages with electric power. A vehicle door in a garage shall not be considered as an outdoor egress door. Where one or more lighting outlets are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level and landing level that includes an entryway to control the lighting outlets where the stairway between floor levels has six or more risers.

Exception: In hallways, stairways, and at outdoor egress doors, remote, central, or automatic control of lighting shall be permitted.

E3903.4 Storage or equipment spaces.
In attics, under-floor spaces, utility rooms and basements, at least one lighting outlet shall be installed where these spaces are used for storage or contain equipment requiring servicing. Such lighting outlet shall be controlled by a wall switch or shall have an integral switch. At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces. The lighting outlet shall be provided at or near the equipment requiring servicing.

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