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Old 01-26-2012, 10:26 AM   #16
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


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Originally Posted by zappa View Post
I'm curious, are either one of these breakers AFCI? They would have a test button on them.
No they dont have a test button on them.

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #17
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


>With what all that has now been published,

>If
there are no contradictions below (please confirm)
and each conclusion logically follows (?) from the premise/symptom
then
I think cb1
is at or near the overload point or
has a quicker trip curve than cb2 but still may be within spec or
is defective.

>I cannot account for a TV being turned off tripping a breaker, unless it is a coincidence. This event is more likely the more the cb1 load varies up and down near the overload point and the more often your TV is turned off.

>You may be able to narrow down these possibilities with test instruments or by reading the nameplate data for each appliance and totaling the loads each puts on the cb.

Turning on . . .the TV caused breaker1 to trip, this didn't happen every time but at least once a day. [close to the cb1's trip threshold, either because of the varying steady state load or a transient pulse due to TV startup]

At the time I wrote the post no other appliances tripped the breaker but just now the microwave did trip it for the first time while the TV was on. [combined load is near or over the cb threshold]

the TV was connected to a plug on breaker2, my ps3 and cable box which where connected to the TV where still connected to the plug on breaker1. [cb2 has some headroom with the loads that are on it, cb1 not]

So I also connected the ps3 and cable box to the plug that was on breaker2 and it seems that my problem is gone.
[seems that cb2 still has a smaller total load than cb1 but see above]

So to clarify after connecting my TV to breaker2, I would turn on the TV, breaker1 would trip and all my plugged in appliances in the living room would turn off [combined load is near or over the cb threshold]

Last edited by Yoyizit; 01-27-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:01 AM   #18
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
>With what all that has now been published,

>If
there are no contradictions below (please confirm)
and each conclusion logically follows (?) from the premise/symptom
then
I think cb1
is at or near the overload point or
has a quicker trip curve than cb2 but still may be within spec or
is defective.

>I cannot account for a TV being turned off tripping a breaker, unless it is a coincidence. This event is more likely the more the cb1 load varies up and down near the overload point and the more often your TV is turned off.

>You may be able to narrow down these possibilities with test instruments or by reading the nameplate data for each appliance and totaling the loads each puts on the cb.

Turning on . . .the TV caused breaker1 to trip, this didn't happen every time but at least once a day. [close to the cb1's trip threshold, either because of the varying steady state load or a transient pulse due to TV startup]

At the time I wrote the post no other appliances tripped the breaker but just now the microwave did trip it for the first time while the TV was on. [combined load is near or over the cb threshold]

the TV was connected to a plug on breaker2, my ps3 and cable box which where connected to the TV where still connected to the plug on breaker1. [cb2 has some headroom with the loads that are on it, cb1 not]

So I also connected the ps3 and cable box to the plug that was on breaker2 and it seems that my problem is gone.
[seems that cb2 still has a smaller total load than cb1 but see above]

So to clarify after connecting my TV to breaker2, I would turn on the TV, breaker1 would trip and all my plugged in appliances in the living room would turn off [combined load is near or over the cb threshold]
From what I understand you are basically telling me that the reason breaker1 was tripping was because it was overloaded and the breaker2 had less of a load which is why things worked when I moved them there. For sure breaker2 had a lower load since it had absolutely nothing connected to it before I put the TV, PS3 and cable box so what you say makes perfect sense.

I am still without a single trip since moving the ps3 and cable box to the breaker, so my problem is basically solved. But at the same time I still have not understood, is why when I initially moved only the TV to breaker2, turning it on would still cause breaker1 to trip? How can a device cause overload to a breaker its not connected to? This transient pulse thing you are talking about seems to actually be a good explanation if it can transfer through devices (transferring from the TV on breaker2 to the PS3 on breaker1 causing breaker1 to trip). Also this transient thing explains the fact that the problem occurred only when turning on the TV and not while the TV was on. Anyway the only reason I'd like to know is out of curiosity since I have solved my problem.

Last edited by zaptree; 01-29-2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:39 PM   #19
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


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Originally Posted by zaptree View Post
But at the same time I still have not understood, is why when I initially moved only the TV to breaker2, turning it on would still cause breaker1 to trip?
Hmm... are the PS3 and the cable box connected to the TV via HDMI?
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:00 AM   #20
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


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Originally Posted by fa_f3_20 View Post
Hmm... are the PS3 and the cable box connected to the TV via HDMI?
Yes they are.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #21
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


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Originally Posted by zaptree View Post
Yes they are.
Here's a somewhat out-there theory for you. From what I understand about HDMI: When the TV powers up, there is a negotiation protocol that runs between it and the other devices where they decide what format and resolution the TV can handle. This extra processing could make the current draws of the PS3 and the cable box increase while it is happening. I suppose that if the load on the circuit was already high, these extra current draws could be enough to trip the breaker.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:32 AM   #22
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


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Originally Posted by zaptree View Post
when I initially moved only the TV to breaker2, turning it on would still cause breaker1 to trip?
If you can reliably reproduce this pattern you have a chance of finding the root cause by trying different combinations of hookups but you may need test instruments to really nail this down
or
something else may have been going on at the time that appeared to be connected to this TV/cb1 problem but the pattern was actually a coincidence and the something else has since disappeared.

But it's definitely pretty weird. And VooDoo is alive and well in some parts of the country!
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:39 PM   #23
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


Have you tried removing the Cable connection as a test? I have heard of improperly grounded cable connections.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:12 PM   #24
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TV Tripping Breaker but not the one its on


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
If you can reliably reproduce this pattern you have a chance of finding the root cause by trying different combinations of hookups but you may need test instruments to really nail this down
or
something else may have been going on at the time that appeared to be connected to this TV/cb1 problem but the pattern was actually a coincidence and the something else has since disappeared.

But it's definitely pretty weird. And VooDoo is alive and well in some parts of the country!
Lol the VooDoo would definitely explain it all! Unfortunately I could not reliably reproduce it since it appears it would happen mostly when the TV is off for a few hours so I would get only 1 or 2 tries per day to get this to happen making it hard to diagnose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribe_fan View Post
Have you tried removing the Cable connection as a test? I have heard of improperly grounded cable connections.
I did not try this although it does sound like a possibility. The fact that I cant reliably reproduce the problem makes it difficult to check this. Unfortunately I also don't have any tools to do any testing (or the knowledge on how to use them) as Yovizit suggested.

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