Troubleshoot A 4-way Switch Circuit: Instructions For A 2-year-old - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

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04-13-2014, 02:39 PM   #1
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I know there are a lot of these threads...but I'm going to try to write this like I would have needed it when I was looking for help.

Not being an electrician but being handy enough; I'm able to wire an entire room with multiple circuits back to the panel with outlets, multiple lights on their own switch without a problem...but 3 & 4-way switches have always boggled my mind until now.

I had a hard time finding a simple diagram or written instructions that didn't use seemingly ambiguous trade lingo. So I figured it out myself and now I'll try to write it out in as simple layman's terms as possible.

---------

What started this is that I replaced the switches in my basement hallway, swapping the wires from the old switch to the new switch by position. Of course nothing worked right when I turned the power back on.

FIRST LESSON: Don't do this, get an electrician or go through the steps below to DETERMINE WIRE FUNCTION and wire that way. Unless you're lucky it won't be right.

GENERAL CONFIGURATION

4 way switches work by having a 3 way switch on either end of the switch circuit and 4 way switches in the middle. Let's look at the circuit in parts:

Part 1This is the first 3 way and has a live input and two "travelers" as outputs (call them A and B). These two travelers go out to the next part.

Part 2This is a 4 way switch. The travelers from part 1 come here and connect to the switch and then more travelers leave and go to part 3. Delete part 2 if you only have two switches in your switch circuit, add another part two if you have 4 or more switches in your switch circuit. Just remember that the end switches are always 3 ways.

Part 3This is the last 3 way and has two travelers coming into it and one final wire going out to the light.

HOW THE WIRES ARE CONNECTED

For all the switches to turn on and off the lights independently, is should be wired like this. Depending on if you're wired live at the light, one of the switches, or like I was at the 4 way switch box then to the first 3 way through the 14/3 wire, etc...this part can be confusing. The key is to leave wire-nutted wires alone, only disconnect the wires attached to the switches...then continue on with this lesson fully before starting. If you're wiring a 4 way switch circuit from scratch then you should know enough that this guide you're reading is completely elementary...if it's not...call an electrician and save yourself a few days of headaches.

Part 1Live wire (hopefully black) to the black "COM or COMMON" screw, outgoing travelers to the other two brass screws (one each, doesn't matter which)

Part 2Incoming travelers to the terminals marked "IN" (one each), outgoing travelers to the wires marked "OUT" (one wire each)

Part 3Incoming travelers to the brass screws (one each, doesn't matter which), outgoing wire to the "COM or COMMON" or black screw.

HOW THE CIRCUIT WORKS

Part 1The first 3 way switches live voltage to one or the other wire...it's never off, only just making one or the other travelers live.

Part 2The 4 way switch just switches the top screw of the "IN" to either the top or bottom screw of the "OUT" and vice versa for the bottom "IN". (ie: switch up: top IN - top OUT, bottom IN - bottom OUT. switch down: top IN - bottom OUT, bottom IN - top OUT.) It just reverses the path from crossed to straight if you were able to look through the switch.

Part 3The last 3 way switch takes the travelers and switches between them to the "COM or COMMON" screw to the light.

The end result is every switch has a live and a dead traveler leaving it and/or coming into it. This is why every switch can turn the light on/off independently because each switch acts like a simple on/off switch but also affects the live and dead travelers to all other switches to make them all act in concert.

Take a moment to ponder this...draw it out if you have to...it's the most fundamental part you need to know to understand this entire lesson. Your drawing might look something like:

<live> _/ = <travelers> =x= <travelers> =\_ <light>

This will help:
http://users.wfu.edu/matthews/misc/s...yAnimation.gif

DETERMINE WIRE FUNCTION

If you're comfortable doing this, do so but be careful. Notify all people in the household and keep children away if you do. It's okay to be nervous but not okay to be careless or rushed.
1. Turn off the power
2. Pull off all the switches disconnecting only the wires attached to the switch
3. Situate the wires out in the open air far away from everything and each other but keep access to a part of the box open
5. Turn on the power
6. CAREFULLY find the only live wire at one of the 3 way switch boxes. It will have full voltage. The other might have a smaller amount of voltage on them but ignore this (this is called "induced" voltage I think and is due to not having a neutral in the switch loop) Do this by setting your multimeter to AC volts, touching the black probe to the box metal, and touching the red probe to the wires you're testing.
7. Note this live wire
8. Turn off the power
9. Connect this wire that was live to the black "COM or COMMON" screw on the switch and the other two "travelers" to the other two brass screws (doesn't matter which)
10. Put the switch in the box, place the cover on. You're done with this switch.
11. Confirm your other wires at the other locations are still out and not touching anything.
12. Turn on the power
13. CAREFULLY find the live wire at one of the 4 way switch locations. Note this wire.
14. Turn off the power
15. Connect this wire (traveler) and the other wire that runs with it in the same cable to the "IN" side of the 4 way switch (one each, doesn't matter which order)
16. Connect the other wires (travelers) to the "OUT" terminals (one each, doesn't matter which order)
17. Put the switch in the box and put the cover on, you're done with this switch.
18. Repeat the above 7 steps for any other 4 way switches or delete them if you don't have any 4 way switches
19. Confirm your last 3 way box is still safe to energize with wires in safe open positions
20. Turn the power on
21. Find the live wire, this is one of the travelers. Note this wire.
22. Go to the last switch you finished wiring in and flip it
23. Back at the last 3 way box, find the live wire. This should be different now and is the other traveler. Note this wire.
24. Turn the power off
25. Connect the two traveler wires to the two brass screws (one each, doesn't matter what order)
26. Connect the last wire to the black "COM or COMMON: terminal.
27. Put the switch in the box and put the cover back on. You're done with the switches.
28. Turn the power on.
29. Confirm that all switches turn the lights on and off independently (should work regardless of what position any other switch is in).

This may be oversimplified but I think it needs to be for complete understanding. If any electricians or other more experiences people find problems with this lesson, please let me know and I'll fix or delete it.

Thanks.

Last edited by pete0403; 04-13-2014 at 03:09 PM.

04-13-2014, 03:10 PM   #2
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I don't think you were oversimplified at all.... and will probably help alot of people.... (I did not study all the steps...leave that to someone else).

Only suggestion might be to toss in a wiring schematic to help some understand,..,. there are plenty out there somewhere in internet.

I would comment that I don't know that all four ways are as clearly marked as in/out. I could swear last one I put in was marked somewhat funny (can't remember exactly... maybe with A's and B's or something). I had to just check my continuitys in the switch.)

Best

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04-13-2014, 03:14 PM   #3
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Kudos

Pete, you did darn good!
Kudos to you.

 04-13-2014, 03:21 PM #4 Rob     Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Spring Creek NV Posts: 1,036 Rewards Points: 826 Do you think you could shorten it a lot and make it so a 60 year old could read it. Maybe I will read it when I go through my third childhood.
 04-13-2014, 04:21 PM #5 A "Handy Husband"     Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Carolina Low Country Posts: 7,292 Rewards Points: 4,142 That explanation works when the power is connected at the first 3 way and the load (light) is connected at the last 3 way. But there are other methods of wiring. The concept is the same but the wiring connections vary. Power is connected at the light Power and light are connected in the first (or last) 3 way. Power is connected at the 4 way. __________________ Location: Coastal South Carolina
 04-13-2014, 05:23 PM #6 Member   Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SW Ontario Posts: 193 Rewards Points: 154 Thanks for the comments. And true, there are other configurations. For example mine had the line cable and the light cable in the 4 way box. The power went to the first 3 way via the black wire of the 14/3 cable with the travelers and the final switched conductor came back to the 4 way box via the black conductor from the last 3 way with those travellers. So all kinds of different ways... But hopefully people trying this have enough of that basic knowledge to figure it out from there. Please feel free to post additional common (or less common) configurations... I'd be interested to hear them.
 04-13-2014, 05:32 PM #7 A "Handy Husband"     Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Carolina Low Country Posts: 7,292 Rewards Points: 4,142 The problem with 3/4 way configurations (in the US) is the NEC now requires a neutral in every switch box and that further middies the water. Often 4 wire cables are required to meed this requirement. __________________ Location: Coastal South Carolina
04-13-2014, 06:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
 The other might have a smaller amount of voltage on them but ignore this (this is called "induced" voltage I think and is due to not having a neutral in the switch loop) Do this by setting your multimeter to AC volts, touching the black probe to the box metal, and touching the red probe to the wires you're testing.
It is not likely to be "induced" voltage. It is more likely "phantom" voltage. Neither is impacted by a switch loop, or having a neutral in the box.

Do you think the color of the probe makes a difference when looking for AC voltage ?
Perhaps a bigger issue might be "what do I do when my box happens to be plastic?".

 04-13-2014, 06:33 PM #9 Member   Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SW Ontario Posts: 193 Rewards Points: 154 Oso, no i don't think colour matters. Just old habit for writing procedures for automotive DC voltage ;-) And I should have added to use the ground wire if the box is not metal. Thanks! Also: "phantom" voltage is what i meant by induced voltage. Are the two used interchangeably? 30 feet of open wire running next to a wire with line voltage will read voltage on it due to the pulsing magnetic field running through it (one of the few high school physics lessons I remember) Last edited by pete0403; 04-13-2014 at 07:35 PM.
 04-13-2014, 06:48 PM #10 Remodel and New Build GC     Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Colorado @ 7651' Posts: 4,676 Rewards Points: 5,622 Hey Guys.... Come to think of it, (I haven't done anything new under permit since new code, is it as simple as a neutral EVERY SWITCH), regardless of whether we have a hot feed. (3 and 4 ways?) TIA __________________ Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing) Last edited by MTN REMODEL LLC; 04-13-2014 at 06:56 PM.
 04-13-2014, 07:26 PM #11 a sparky     Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 91 Rewards Points: 77 The way I hear it the answer is a simple "yes". ( 'cept conduit, as a neutral can be inserted ) Unless localities have not adopted this one.
04-13-2014, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Oso954 It is not likely to be "induced" voltage. It is more likely "phantom" voltage. Neither is impacted by a switch loop, or having a neutral in the box. Do you think the color of the probe makes a difference when looking for AC voltage ? Perhaps a bigger issue might be "what do I do when my box happens to be plastic?".
Use the plastic part of the probe....
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04-13-2014, 07:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by pete0403 Thanks for the comments. And true, there are other configurations. For example mine had the line cable and the light cable in the 4 way box. The power went to the first 3 way via the black wire of the 14/3 cable with the travelers and the final switched conductor came back to the 4 way box via the black conductor from the last 3 way with those travellers. So all kinds of different ways... But hopefully people trying this have enough of that basic knowledge to figure it out from there. Please feel free to post additional common (or less common) configurations... I'd be interested to hear them.
Yep, but people sometimes panic. That clouds judgement and the final picture. I still say your's is a good solid guide.

Just for reference, a graphic I made for another forum, ( no longer a part of because they... well, they no longer were as user friendly ), showing block diagrams of the basic methods for a three way switch. Now with adding just a single four-way, well, it gets a lot more variables. Essentially a four-way switch can be added in any BLUE line and MORE!

Changes to bring it up to present day codes if applicable in your area are;
A. Requires 4-conductor wire in right side blue line.
B. No changes necessary as I understand it.
C. Requires 4-conductor wire instead of 3-conductor
D. Requires 3-consuctor instead or present 2-conductor and 4-conductor instead of present 3-conductor.
E. Requires 4-conducor in place of both 3-conductor wires.

AS a quick count, inserting a four-way into the circuits, I see eight different ways this block diagram could be.
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11-13-2015, 05:14 PM   #14
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About a year and a half since the last post. Bumping the thread up so it may help some others before it falls into the oblivion of the internets.

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