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Old 08-13-2010, 01:00 PM   #16
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
They are usually the smaller 2-3 person hot tubs
But I do have an old one that was taken apart that was maybe 6x6' , 406 people could fit in it & it plugged into a 20a circuit - T slot plug
406 very FRIENDLY people.

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Old 08-20-2010, 03:32 PM   #17
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


Have one quick question. Can the main panel breaker be 60A and the Hot Tub panel be 50A GFCI or does it need to be equal amperage?

I got a couple of electricians in here, they gave me great advice. One was nice and said to save me money for me to do most of the rough in my self. Run the PVC conduit ( cut concrete ) run the wire 6-3 proper for underground in the conduit, place the hot tub panel, told me where to put, more then 5 feet away and in line of sight. Buy necessary breakers and cables, and then he would just come and connect it all and make sure it was ok...

Since I did all the electrical in my house, and it passed inspection by ESA i am comfortable with doing the rough in for the tub. I already looked up all the code for depth of trench, etc etc.

So now I am in the process of buying all the material I need. I got the siemens hot tub panel 50A GFCI. But the electrical place where i get the material did not have a q250 siemens breaker for me to install at the main panel. So i picked up a q260.

Anyways I want to make sure that is OK for when I call the electrician to do all the wire hook ups
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:42 PM   #18
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


I hope that you were not told to buy 6-3 UF or NM for the run through the conduit. Neither can be used to wire the exterior portion of the circuit to the hot tub. NM is not for use outside and UF does not have the required insulated ground wire. The proper way would be individual THWN conductors in the proper colors and sizes.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:15 PM   #19
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
I hope that you were not told to buy 6-3 UF or NM for the run through the conduit. Neither can be used to wire the exterior portion of the circuit to the hot tub. NM is not for use outside and UF does not have the required insulated ground wire. The proper way would be individual THWN conductors in the proper colors and sizes.
I am in Ontario, Canada and i believe the names of the wires are little different then US. He actually recomended 2 methods.

Method 1. Run PVC conduit along the side of the house so I would not have to cut concrete all the way to the panel. Then from the side of the house continue the conduit underground to the spa panel. Feed either individual THWN wires or feed a MNWU wire.

Method 2. Run PCV conduit along the side of the house and down in to the trench, in the trench do not use conduit but use MNWU wire at a depth of 24" to the spa panel, then where the cable comes back out of the ground that I need to put conduit from trench to the spa panel.

I checked the code book and it seems to me either way is right. NMWU cable is what they say is for underground runs.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:44 PM   #20
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


That's good that you found an electrician who will let you do the work and finish it off for you. I guess he feels that you are going to do it yourself anyway so 3 hours of work is better than nothing. It's much safer for you as well because inspectors don't always check everything.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:25 PM   #21
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


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Originally Posted by Proby View Post
That's good that you found an electrician who will let you do the work and finish it off for you. I guess he feels that you are going to do it yourself anyway so 3 hours of work is better than nothing. It's much safer for you as well because inspectors don't always check everything.
Yup he seemed pretty cool and explained what I needed to do before he comes out, however I want to make sure I do it right and to code.

What method would be best? NMWU wire does not have a insulated ground, in the US it is my understanding the ground needs to be insulated for hot tubs, but in Ontario Canada, that is not the case. Also it is my understanding that you cannot run UF inside conduit but you can with NMWU ?? Hoping a Canadian electrician here would chime in. I could call the electrician and ask him, but really would not rather bother him as he has already helped so much.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:07 PM   #22
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


Here is a draw up of what i am planning on doing. The cable I would use is NMWU 6-3.

From house panel to GFCI panel i would have PVC conduit along the wall. From GFCI it would be direct burial to the tub. There would be PVC conduit at entrance of trench and exit by the tub.

My only concern with this is can NMWU wire run in conduit? Also the ground in NMWU is not insulated and is that a problem. In the US I believe it is a problem but in ontario code i believe it is ok.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:21 PM   #23
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


Fond this on a PDF for electrical code

Quote:
Underground wiring methods, in order of most common to least common:
1. NMWU in Rigid PVC Conduit - one continuous cable running from the panelboard in the house to a junction box or panel installed in the garage. The cable is protected by PVC conduit on all exterior surfaces and for the entire underground section. Utilizing cable type NMWU and buried minimum 18”.
2. TECK Cable - one continuous cable running from the house panel to a junction box or panel installed in the garage. Utilizing cable type TECK90 directly buried a minimum 18”. Note the armour on a TECK cable must run continuously from end to end – it cannot be cut off at any point – and must be bonded at both ends (bonded by the cable connectors).
3. NMWU direct buried - one continuous cable running from the house panel to a junction box or panel installed in the garage. Cable protected by PVC conduit on all exterior surfaces to the bottom of the trench. Cable is then laid in the trench and protected by a bed of screened 6mm sand (3” of sand required above and below the cable). Utilizing cable type NMWU and buried minimum 24”.
So i suppose that NMWU can run in conduit and direct burial

Last edited by the punisher; 08-20-2010 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:28 PM   #24
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


I would do conduit myself
Easier to repull new wire if something goes wrong
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:36 AM   #25
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


I will just run the whole thing in Conduit the reason why I say that due that way you can elemated one more splice box all you need a LB or LR { Or LF } depending on which way you run the conduit.

you will need 16mm˛ { #6 AWG } with insluated ground but I know Canada do allow other verison but hold off a moment until Joed reply in here he should come in anytime soon so he will confirm your question with that one.

Merci.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:36 AM   #26
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
I will just run the whole thing in Conduit the reason why I say that due that way you can elemated one more splice box all you need a LB or LR { Or LF } depending on which way you run the conduit.

you will need 16mm˛ { #6 AWG } with insluated ground but I know Canada do allow other verison but hold off a moment until Joed reply in here he should come in anytime soon so he will confirm your question with that one.

Merci.
Marc
Yup I have decided I will place conduit all the way. Now I just need to make sure that NMWU is ok for hot tub, Or else I will just buy 3 seperate THWN wires and 1 insulated 8 AWG THWN ground. Hopefully a Canadian electrician will comfirm. I am not sure in Canada they call it THWN .
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:20 PM   #27
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the punisher View Post
Yup I have decided I will place conduit all the way. Now I just need to make sure that NMWU is ok for hot tub, Or else I will just buy 3 seperate THWN wires and 1 insulated 8 AWG THWN ground. Hopefully a Canadian electrician will comfirm. I am not sure in Canada they call it THWN .
If you going to run the THHN/THWN conductor it will be much easier to pull thru the conduit than the NMWU cable will do in the conduit.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:25 PM   #28
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


hey punisher, how do you plan on meeting ground grid rule?
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Old 08-24-2010, 02:56 PM   #29
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


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hey punisher, how do you plan on meeting ground grid rule?
I could be wrong but I believe that is not necessary. Electrician mentioned nothing of it and I have yet to read anything about it. Perhaps you can/could inform me on such? If I it has to be done I have no problem doing it but not sure i understand how it is done.

Update: After some reading, the hot tubs do have "bonding lugs". I am unsure what I am suppose to do here. Can someone help?

Last edited by the punisher; 08-24-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 08-24-2010, 04:21 PM   #30
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Tips on how I can get this electrical job done for a hot tub in backyard.


From the manual i get this:

Quote:
A pressure sensitive
terminal block (bonding
lug) is attached to the
outside surface of the
load box. This permits
the connection of a
bonding wire between
this point and any metal
equipment chassis,
metal water pipe, or
metal conduit within 5 ft
(1.5m) of the spa. The
bonding wire must be at
least #8 AWG (8.4 mm˛)
solid copper wire.
Other then the actual motor of the spa, I have no other metal within 5 feet.

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