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Old 09-08-2012, 10:21 PM   #16
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THWN wire; Gray pvc Conduit; and GFCI receptacles


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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
I believe he was being funny, because the posts are structures.
Just paint me gullible- my dad taught me from a very young age to do things right the 1st time- or don't do them at all. And to ask for help...or when I'm unsure or don't know the answer to a problem, to seek out the professional. So when someone like me joins a list like this to get an "on the level" answer, I am not interested in or not impressed with someone who throws out a broad answer because they have more knowledge than I. I ask out of genuine respect that I have for the tradesman or person I am seeking their assistance from, that they'll step up to the plate and educate me with their knowledge- and for my safety!

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:37 PM   #17
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Unless code has changed you can't just mark the black or white wire to use it as a ground:

Unless it larger than #6 it must be "identified by a continuous green color or a continuous green color with one or more yellow stripes on the insulation or covering, except where bare."

You can strip the insulation off but no taped ends.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzy

Just paint me gullible- my dad taught me from a very young age to do things right the 1st time- or don't do them at all. And to ask for help...or when I'm unsure or don't know the answer to a problem, to seek out the professional. So when someone like me joins a list like this to get an "on the level" answer, I am not interested in or not impressed with someone who throws out a broad answer because they have more knowledge than I. I ask out of genuine respect that I have for the tradesman or person I am seeking their assistance from, that they'll step up to the plate and educate me with their knowledge- and for my safety!
In no way am I trying to be funny. The NEC requires that any structure supplied by more than one circuit have a panel that is suitable for use as service equipment and two ground rods at each. This is a code requirement. The silence of our other experts on this thread is deafening.
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Last edited by electures; 09-08-2012 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:51 PM   #19
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THWN wire; Gray pvc Conduit; and GFCI receptacles


Quote:
Originally Posted by electures View Post
In no way am I trying to be funny. The NEC requires that any structure supplied by more than one circuit have a panel that is suitable for use as service equipment and two ground rods at each. This is a code requirement. The silence of our other experts on this thread is deafening.
I understand your point of view however I belive the OP is useing single MWBC or a single circuit avce one unswitched et one is switched so if both are from the same circuit that pretty much throw out of the window but single MWBC useally muted on this one most case but more than just a MWBC then oui I agree with that part.

Just my option on that part.

Merci,
Marc

Note I know OP mention one 15 and one 20 amp circuit however if he stick to single 20 amp circuit and use the switch loop and run from the same circuit then you should be fine on that part. Because I do not know if the OP is useing the same switch at the house side which it is on the lighting circuit.
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Last edited by frenchelectrican; 09-08-2012 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican

I understand your point of view however I belive the OP is useing single MWBC or a single circuit avce one unswitched et one is switched so if both are from the same circuit that pretty much throw out of the window but single MWBC useally muted on this one most case but more than just a MWBC then oui I agree with that part.

Just my option on that part.

Merci,
Marc

Note I know OP mention one 15 and one 20 amp circuit however if he stick to single 20 amp circuit and use the switch loop and run from the same circuit then you should be fine on that part. Because I do not know if the OP is useing the same switch at the house side which it is on the lighting circuit.
In the original post he states one 15a circuit and one 20a circuit. Sounds like two circuits to me.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:07 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by electures View Post
ANy structure supplied by more than one circuit requires a panel rated suitable for use as a service disconnect and ground rods at each structure. A post lamp is a structure. It would be easier to run a multiwire branch circuit with one constant hot and the other switched.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzy View Post
Please bear with me, If I understand you correctly- for the two 7' residential light poles I'm installing on a 15 amp switched circuit (via an Intermatic ET1725C DPST timer), I have to drive 2-8' ground rods per lamp post and add a service disconnect to an existing exterior receptacle that's attached to my house siding (which is the only receptacle on a 20 amp circuit) because I want to extend that circuit out to a brick post/pillar I am building around the lamp post!?
Buzzy.,

If you read Electures's comment as he suggest a MWBC ( Multi Wire Branch circuit that useally work the best and you may end up run a switch loop avce netural for it ( 12-3 for inside part then run 4 conductor of 12 gauge THHN/THWN Black , Red , White et green so the black is unswitched while red is switched so simplify it instead of running two seperated circuits to one " structure " so this may slove some of your issue right there.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:26 PM   #22
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My mistake was not contacting my local inspector and a local licensed electrician for assistance

For my project that I am working on, it is okay to run the two circuits (15 amp & 20 amp) into one 3/4" gray pvc (schedule 40) conduit underground.

I do not have to "install a panel suitable for use as service equipment at each post" or drive any ground rods into the soil at each location, either.

And it is permissible to use any color insulated wire as a ground as long as it is wrapped in green coded tape. I don't have to wrap the entire length of the wire, just the portions that are exposed outside the sleeve of the conduit at the ends where the wire nut connections are made.

And yes, the ground wire must be insulated, bare copper wire cannot be sleeved into the pvc conduit.

A licensed electrician volunteered to come and inspect my work as soon as I'm done.

Thanks to everyone for their help and input. God Bless.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzy View Post
My mistake was not contacting my local inspector and a local licensed electrician for assistance
Correct

Quote:
For my project that I am working on, it is okay to run the two circuits (15 amp & 20 amp) into one 3/4" gray pvc (schedule 40) conduit underground.
Correct

Quote:
I do not have to "install a panel suitable for use as service equipment at each post" or drive any ground rods into the soil at each location, either.
Debatable. Do you have 2 individual circuits going to a single structure?

If yes a SUSE rated disconnecting means and a Grounding Electrode System, such as rods, are required at that structure.


Quote:
And it is permissible to use any color insulated wire as a ground as long as it is wrapped in green coded tape. I don't have to wrap the entire length of the wire, just the portions that are exposed outside the sleeve of the conduit at the ends where the wire nut connections are made.
Incorrect. Insulated grounding wires smaller than #4 must have a continuous green or green w/yellow stripe insulation.

Quote:
And yes, the ground wire must be insulated, bare copper wire cannot be sleeved into the pvc conduit.
Incorrect, except for a few exceptions.

Quote:
A licensed electrician volunteered to come and inspect my work as soon as I'm done.

Thanks to everyone for their help and input. God Bless.
Good luck.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:35 AM   #24
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[QUOTE="Code05"]

Correct

Correct

Debatable. Do you have 2 individual circuits going to a single structure?

If yes a SUSE rated disconnecting means and a Grounding Electrode System, such as rods, are required at that structure.

Incorrect. Insulated grounding wires smaller than #4 must have a continuous green or green w/yellow stripe insulation.

Incorrect, except for a few exceptions.

Good luck.[/

Why is it that when they don't like the responses, they give us attitude? Code is code. If his inspector accepts less, that's on him.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:46 AM   #25
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Why is it that when they don't like the responses, they give us attitude? Code is code. If his inspector accepts less, that's on him.[/quote]


That's very presumptuous on your part...granted, you know your NEC codes but that does not mean you know my motives or rationale for my comment, "my mistake was not contacting my local inspector and local licensed electrician for assistance". If you perceived my comment in a negative manner, that's on you.

Code5 was gracious in getting his point across without being brash or accusatory.

Pick any profession or trade- now take any number of people within that trade or profession and place them in a room. Ask the exact same query to each of those people and you'll get as many different answers as there are people. No two answers will be exactly alike. (remember playing the game telephone when you were a kid?!)

So, due to the fact that there were several different answers to my query- I recognized that the best way to resolve my dilemma was to go with what is an acceptable practice in my area/jurisdiction; plain and simple.

Having said that, as each new (building) code year evolves, do you strip down your entire electrical, plumbing, gas, framing (and so forth) to your residence to accommodate all the latest code revisions?

If the NEC (or other building codes) are cast in stone, then ALL homes built prior to 2011 are in violation to the latest codes; and are not optimized for safety/protection; and would have to be retrofitted to the current specs.

There are emergency war housing units (brick & cast stone) in town built circa 1917- (pre WWI), as well as ballooned frame homes- that are listed in the National Register of Historic Places; and that are still outfitted with 60 amp service; with 2 bakelite fuse holders (pull-out fuse blocks- marked "main & range") for ferrule type cartridge fuses & 4 glass screw fuses...and the meters are still indoor.

Now mind you, although 60 amp service is legal here in the municipality where I live, I am sure there are some jurisdictions outside my area where service is mandated to be upgraded to at least 100 amps.

Therefore, citing the above as an example, my community standards allows me to install my residential light posts and receptacles without having to install ground rods or an exterior disconnect.

As I stated in my earlier posts, I am genuinely grateful to all of you who have replied to my post for help; the varying responses prompted & encouraged me to make contact with professionals and officials in my locality. What a blessing!

Peace ~ Buzzy
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:56 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by electures View Post

Why is it that when they don't like the responses, they give us attitude? Code is code. If his inspector accepts less, that's on him.
Why are you quoting me? I agreed with you, except that a SUSE rated panel is not required, only a SUSE rated disconnecting means is.

225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting
means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as
service equipment.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Code05

Why are you quoting me? I agreed with you, except that a SUSE rated panel is not required, only a SUSE rated disconnecting means is.

225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting
means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as
service equipment.
Sorry. Didn't need to quote your post. Meant it as agreeing with you. Thanks.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:49 PM   #28
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So if I'm cheap and only want to buy one spool of THWN #6 wire I should buy green or green w/yellow stripe insulation? Then I can use this for my hot, ground and neutral as long as I lable the business ends?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:00 AM   #29
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So if I'm cheap and only want to buy one spool of THWN #6 wire I should buy green or green w/yellow stripe insulation? Then I can use this for my hot, ground and neutral as long as I lable the business ends?
This is kinda of off topic related to the oringal topic however I can answer your question here #6 green is generally is not a best idea to remarked at all there is a safety issue going on is that green conductor or green conductor with yellow stripe which that is a grounding conductor so it can not be remarked to other colours at all.

#4 or larger can be done however be aware that the inspectors may nix that one pretty fast espcally with green conductors which they are remarked.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:41 AM   #30
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So if I'm cheap and only want to buy one spool of THWN #6 wire I should buy green or green w/yellow stripe insulation? Then I can use this for my hot, ground and neutral as long as I lable the business ends?
Why make life difficult down the road? Labels get damaged, the writing fades, you're just asking for headaches down the road. What if, at a later date, you decide to put a new outlet in the middle of a run? All you have are three green wires.

Splurge. Get some black, some white, and some green (or bare).

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