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Old 04-19-2008, 04:33 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by jrclen
Not me, I looked at who his opponent was and understood the vote.

I didn't like either one of them..... but I did choose and vote. Remember who won the popular vote? The politicians changed to the electoral system they didn't ask you or me how we felt about it. I've never really heard a good argument that had any substance to it as to why the electoral college vs popular referendum.

You have to have a good sense of humor at reading this thread otherwise we may all be shooting at one another before it is over.

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Gee Stubie, you seem to care a lot for the environment. How does a guy from Kansas hunt caribou? Did you walk that far North?
Nope, but I would have thought of something more original than that statement. That trap is for school children it is over used like the word awesome. Next you will be telling me they taught you that trick question at the cia. Nice try.

When I look North of my home toward the city lights I see a grey cloud in the summer months. I know it is because of pollution of all kinds. I don't like it. But I am a part of it. I don't like that either. I would like something better... you want something better from what you say about hydrogen and nuclear.

I'm not for nuclear (just ask the Russians) but it is better than coal IMO as far as clean. I'm willing to settle for Nuclear anything that is less polluting and then continue to improve on it. But we have what we have so we go on with it, doesn't mean my children have to have the same dirty fuels.

If I have to choose between caribou and keeping my house warm... I'll keep my house warm with whatever it takes but I want something better than oil. My house is NG all I got in my area is electric or gas so I use them. I consider myself an environmentalist but not a member of PETA or extremism.

I want to see the gray cloud go away. I want to see a caribou on the tundra in their natural habitat and not dodging pipelines. I like to eat meat, but I don't hunt cows. I hunt with a bow not a rifle but it is still hunting. I'm outdoors I love it there whether it is to view the land or to fish or to harvest a elk or deer or moose or bear or or other legal game. I get there using oil refined fuels but I would like something better. I want my tax money to be used for that something better or at least some of it.

Yes I love the environment, hunting and fishing and our National parks and the planet in general. If your looking for perfection in people then there is the planet K-PAX you can live on.


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I'd guess you probably took a fuel guzzling, CO2 emitting, aluminum built airplane! For what? the pleasure of killing an animal who was no threat to you? Meat other than that you can get at a local store? ...and so on.
Actually no we don't but sometimes we do. It's about 50/50 depending on where we go. Sometimes we go by gas guzzling polluting outboard motors after driving our gas guzzling polluting trucks to the last possible inch of road and so on....

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Old 04-27-2008, 02:58 PM   #47
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There have been some very interesting comments. I've been sick with the flue since I last posted.

With regard to "the US vs the rest of the world", is that really the case? Is that "sensible"? Mr Silks comments about wanting the rest of the world to be as prosperous as the US sound "nice" but requesting/making others follow the ways of one country is nothing less than an incipient dictatorship.

Religion & Culture will always be a problem...particularly if the religion & culture are "state" assets (Spain about 500-60 years ago. Yes, 500 is correct). Thailand has an incredibly strong culture. As a matter of fact, it is "programmed" into their (Thais) heads on a daily basis. The result of this is an extreme dislike for "western" culture. Mind you, they all crave money more so than most westerners whom I know. There is clearly a hypocracy in this ideal. The whole thing seems to tear people apart.

"FEAR" is what destroys great things. Fear of religion...fear of culture...fear of change...fear of the unknown.

I'm not a religious person in any way. As a matter of fact, I despise what people have done to perfectly good religions. I really think that religion has a place in this world & the less people fear it (the more they try to understand it), the less of a problem it will be. Currently though, I am not a "liker" of religions.

It's easy to label people into categories. It's not so easy to try to understand others. If only we could try to understand each other & "tolerate" our differences, we may stand a chance of living a life of greatly reduced conflict. And to those who will now say something like "But how are we expected to tolerate the negative reactions of others if they don't show any intention of toleration themselves"? The answer to this question is simple...all one needs to do is to look at Palestine & Israel. "Revenge" is what causes the never ending problems there. If you support problems then there will be no solution...until one side says "Enough".

To those who think that the US is the "leader" in the world, I would suggest that "YOU" be a leader in your country & practice tolerance toward all others under any conditions. Is this not what leaders do? Would not the worlds leader want to set an example of tolerance to the rest of the world?

With regard to world leaders & energy, I would think that anybody who chooses to say that they belong to a particular world leader, would be totally against nuclear energy & whole heartedly support things like fuel cell technology. Nuclear technology is NOT clean. As a matter of fact, it is the most dangerous form of energy ever discovered. Liken it to oil pipelines...one catastrophe will cost a lot more than just money. Oil spills can be cleaned up & the environment can recover from such a disaster pretty quickly. In the event of a nuclear disaster, it will take thousands of years to recover...& this is not withstanding the cost to society.

Fuel cells are the way to go. Oil & nuclear energies are dangerous & outmoded. As soon as I get a copy of my friends thesis, I will post more info about fuel cells.
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:21 PM   #48
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The politicians changed to the electoral system they didn't ask you or me how we felt about it. I've never really heard a good argument that had any substance to it as to why the electoral college vs popular referendum.
Actually the founding fathers came up with the electoral college, not the politicians you mentioned. It was to keep the more populated states from deciding all the elections. It's worked very well for as long as America has been voting. It still works well today. Checks and balances. Without them, we are sunk.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:45 AM   #49
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John

They were politicians. I'm not faulting the founding fathers or the electoral college. In fact I don't find much to fault in this country, I prefer referundum popular vote thats all. I find it ironic that all those big states they are afraid will swing a popular vote.... also have the most delegates..... I simply think the electorial college has undergone so freakin many legislative changes since the early days of this country, that it is time to simple things up and elect by popular vote. Like we do in state elections. The electoral college is a huge event of political game playing...just look at the super delegate thing that has been going on with the democratic candidates.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:28 AM   #50
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Stubbie,

So now you don't believe in states rights? The founding fathers knew that this was a country of states, not people. If the electoral system is scrapped, then a handful of major cities would decide for the whole country who the next president would be. Think of the power that would reside in just a handful of mayors and city council members! The candidates would only have to campaign in a dozen states to take all the states.

Doesn't Kansas have it's own issues and problems that need to be made aware of at the national level? Do you think any candidate would give a rat's ass about your state with a measly 1% of the population? Do you want the country to be run by the residents in a handful of major cities?

This is still the United States of America, and we need to protect the rights of the states. We can't scrap states rights just for a bunch of sore losers who can't get over the 04 election.

If you want to start somewhere, start with the World Series and the Stanley Cup. The way they work, a team can have the most points (votes) but still lose the most games (states) and be the loser. Do people like you cry about that every year too?

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Old 04-28-2008, 10:13 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
The electoral college is a huge event of political game playing...just look at the super delegate thing that has been going on with the democratic candidates.
Heck, back in the good old days, the candidates were picked by the cigar smoking party officials in back rooms. The people had nothing to say about it.

Now as a personal thing, I refuse to debate politics with a man who refuses to allow beer in his fishing boat.
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:55 AM   #52
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Now as a personal thing, I refuse to debate politics with a man who refuses to allow beer in his fishing boat.

I refuse to fish with a man who doesn't allow beer in his boat
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:12 AM   #53
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I don't refuse it I just don't drink it.... If you fish with me you can drink all you want while I catch the fish.....

Silk: I don't think we are ever going to be on the same page. I didn't say a freakin word about states losing their rights. I simply don't buy the big cities will swing the elections. Hillary is back in the race because she concentrated on the states with the big numbers of electoral delegates while Obama won most of the small ones. I fail to see the difference in strategies. I simply don't like the idea of the majority of Americans voting for a candidate but the electoral college outweighing the voice of the people.

What makes you think I'm a sore loser about the 2004 race?? Though I consider it a rather embarrassing event of our political system I really don't see a better governmental and political system anywhere in the world. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion of making it better right or wrong.
The citizens of this country are the best check and balance we have.

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This is still the United States of America
Do tell.....oh and by the way I voted for Bush both times. As you know I'm a long time UAW member and we support Democratic candidates I didn't care for Gore he was one of those KUMBAYA fellows....
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:28 PM   #54
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I'm sure we would have a fine time fishing Stubbie, with or without the beer. Along with discussing the US of A as Archie used to put it. And if they fish weren't biting, we could talk electrical work for hours.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:48 PM   #55
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No way trapped on a boat do you talk politics. You talk about fishing, the cute girl at the bait shop, cars, hunting, hobbies, and most anything else.

My questions is.
When do we go fishing???????
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:18 PM   #56
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John and JBfan

No your talking!!!

I always find discussing politics rather amusing in how your opinion (and that is all it ever is) will always gets turned into what a America hater you are by someone sooner or later. When it all comes down to it we could all use some lessons in history. As for politicians when you figure those boys out let me know....

Now if you guys like to play poker while I drink my coke and you have your beer I can accomodate you. I always like takin your money when ya have a little to much....

As an added note one thing I do refuse in my boat and that is shop talk....

Silk....

If you come fishing with me we can talk politics I'll make an exception.....
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:20 PM   #57
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Your comment of being trapped on a boat brought back a funny memory. I grew up on a lake. I was around 10 or 11 and my grandpa was visiting. He asked if I wanted to go fishing with him. I agreed to go. We had an old wooden row boat back then and out we went, about 50 yards from the pier. Fishing with drop lines for panfish. After an hour with no bites, I got pretty bored. I asked grampa if he was ready to quit. Nope, the fish will bite pretty soon. After another hour I figured I needed an excuse to get out of this fishing trip. So I told him I needed to pee and we should go back to shore. None, just pee in that can there, the fish will bite pretty soon. After another hour without any bites at all, I offered to just jump in and swim to shore. Nope, that will scare the fish away says grampa. WHAT FISH? THERE ARE NO FISH IN THIS LAKE!!!! HOW CAN I SCARE THE FISH, THAT AREN'T EVEN HERE? If they don't bite in another hour, we'll quit, now be quiet, your going to scare the fish. Another hour without a single bite for either of us. He finally pulled up the anchor and rowed to shore. Four hours without a bite between us. I never fished in a boat with him again.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:45 PM   #58
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Silk....

If you come fishing with me we can talk politics I'll make an exception.....

We probably could go fishing together, I think fundamentally we are pretty close on our ideals. Right now walleye season is closed, but lake sturgeon season just opened, now that's fun. Have you ever hooked into a sturgeon before? 2 ladies just caught one 20 miles from my house that weighed approxiamately 120 to 130 pounds. They can pull my little 14 foot boat all over the river before they come up.

It's also too cold down on the river this time of the year to drink beer!

Here's a picture of that fish...............

P.S. Just to let you know, I think you're a great asset to this forum with your knowledge and the amount of time you put into helping all these people
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:21 PM   #59
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What if you're a Milwaukee Bucks fan and your team owner is a politician? lol
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:01 PM   #60
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It's also too cold down on the river this time of the year to drink beer!

Here's a picture of that fish...............
I live in Wisconsin and I've never seen it to cold to drink beer. I have had to keep the cans in my inside pockets to keep them from freezing solid from time to time.

That fish is ugly but the girls are nice looking.

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