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Old 04-18-2008, 10:15 PM   #31
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Yes, your right I was going off memory. The numbers were 377 billion gross and 39 billion net. Slightly over 10%.

But it's still 10%
So you want government out of business's way? Much of Exxon's profits were the result of lobbying for tax waivers. Ergo, your income tax and my income tax became Exxon's profits. Exxon still has not paid the fines for the Valdez Debacle in Alaska.

Amazingly, business wants government to step aside and calls it capatilism. But they're all for socialism when it comes to corporate welfare.

If you do't pay your mortgage, you're a deadbeat and the bank forcloses. When you don't pay 11 million mortgages, you're called Behr Sterns and the government bails you out with the deadbeat's tax money.

In the meantime, we're the only developed nation w/o a national health care plan. Or mandated paid vacations. Or labor laws that actually protect labor.
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:40 AM   #32
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El Kangarito

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Again & to keep this topic on track, I think that Fuel Cells will upset the scheme of things greatly...so much so that oil companies will soon endorse such things, because they recognise that their source of control is running out. They will seek to monopolise the next ultimate fuel source. Maybe it will be platinum or hydrogen? But I'm sure they'll attempt to control such a valuable source. Mark my words
Again I agree.... ain't no Utopia for our future.

BTW I have to chuckle how we label people as liberals or conservatives or democrats or republicans or nationalists. I can assure you it is none of those that keeps America from drilling through caribous heads to get to the oil in the Alaskan wildlife reserve....


Someone will always control the energy....

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As to getting together with the rest of the world. The only thing that would do is to pull us down to the level of everybody else. The rest of the world should be striving to be more like us. We are the richest country in the history of the world, we must be doing something right.
I was trying to get a handle on your character and I have now come to realize you are an opportunist**. Had you ever fought for your country and experienced a war you would not be capable of such a statement IMO. I hope we do not go down in history as being remembered as the richest country in the world that wanted everyone else to bow to us. I'm fairly sure that few sentences you just stumbled through was not what our founding fathers would be hoping for coming from an American. Our heroes at Arlington would be saddened by such talk.


Please don't include the rest of America in your opinions. I have no problem with your right to express your beliefs but please leave me out of them. I will let you know if I agree or not. However I do agree with you in that we have done many things right. Being rich is not on my list of things to be proud about as a nation. What you really should have said is that we are the richest country on paper speaking of our government and our government holds the largest unsecured debt in the history of nations.

Speaking of our National Heritage we likely are rich.

**
1.the policy or practice, as in politics, business, or one's personal affairs, of adapting actions, decisions, etc., to expediency or effectiveness regardless of the sacrifice of ethical principles.

In the mean time you might do well to read what our founding fathers had in mind......

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article1

http://www.usconstitution.net/declar.html

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Old 04-19-2008, 01:02 AM   #33
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Now since we have spun our wheels about all that is wrong in the world....what about fuel cells?

This is what I know

They are extremely efficient
The technology needs improvement but lacks robust interest (I wonder why?)
Bridgestone is moving towards complete switch over to fuel cell fork lifts in their plants across the world.
A supermarket chain in Connecticut is powering all its stores at 50% with fuel cells especially for heating water.
Very low pollution
They are quiet
Low maintenance
Big oil is at the moment not exactly embracing the idea
For some reason our government only says its promising technology

It is apparent to me that fuel cells will be a common energy source at the commercial level in probably a decade or so and we won't have to drill through anymore caribou heads.......
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Old 04-19-2008, 08:07 AM   #34
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El Kangarito


I was trying to get a handle on your character and I have now come to realize you are an opportunist**. Had you ever fought for your country and experienced a war you would not be capable of such a statement IMO. I hope we do not go down in history as being remembered as the richest country in the world that wanted everyone else to bow to us. I'm fairly sure that few sentences you just stumbled through was not what our founding fathers would be hoping for coming from an American. Our heroes at Arlington would be saddened by such talk.
Opportunist, yeah I'll accept that. Most great men have seen an opportunity and grasped it, if you think i'll in the same league, then thank you.

As for this statement:
As to getting together with the rest of the world. The only thing that would do is to pull us down to the level of everybody else. The rest of the world should be striving to be more like us. We are the richest country in the history of the world, we must be doing something right.
This just shows what a humanitarian I am. I want everybody else in the world to achieve the prosperity that we have as a nation. I believe the founding fathers wanted demoracy to spread. They believed in individual freedoms, not freedoms given to us by the government.

I believe I have a handle on your character Stubbie, you believe in Marxism, which would sadden our founding fathers to see that our working men and women want to give up their liberties because they no longer believe in the dream that was America.

If you and Kangaroo go fishing I don't believe I would want any part of it. I can just see it now:

Two guys weaving flowers through each others hair while singing Kumbaya in a rowboat (you wouldn't want to pollute with an outboard) and drinking herbal tea, the whole time ignoring the fact that Mahmud Ahmadinejad has 6000 cascading centifuges working night and day to enrich enough uranium to vaporize your little flower party.

Now if you want to come fishing with me we'll start up my 2-cycle 150 horse Yamaha, grab a couple 30 packs of Schmidt run across the border and just pound the Walleyes (wait till the middle of July till they're on the reefs)
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:28 AM   #35
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I love the talk on this thread. I love to hear thoughts that show diversity in opinions!

I'm 54 and here's what I've been thinking lately..

I grew up as a liberal hippy. I went to trade school then joined the Peace Corps. Kinda didn't like the ol' USofA so I moved to Canada and have been here ever since. It feels pretty good living out of the mainstream and as you know Canada is a bit more socialistic.

That said, I'm getting damn tired of freeloaders, politicians, big gov't, bureaucrats and long waits at the hospital!

After working for 30+ years as an electrician, I'm starting to understand the beliefs of our founding fathers of the USA. It's all about being able to benefit from HARD WORK! No aristocrats, no taxes, no big gov'ts, no inheritances. I'm a real "citizen of the planet" meaning, NOBODY OWES ANYONE ANYTHING, it's every man for himself!

BTW, if your willing to help me "build my barn" you can count on me to help you out in any way I can!

- pete

As for energy, nuclear is by far the way to go. Hydrogen might help if they can make it using off-peak power from the grid. (it's kinda the only way you can "store" large amounts of electricity)

(I'd probably vote for Ron Paul)
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Old 04-19-2008, 10:42 AM   #36
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Now I could go fishing with you Pete, maybe you could teach lawnboy how great nationalized health care works.
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:16 AM   #37
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Silk


You need to lighten up.... I apologize if I have mistaken your ethical beliefs. I'm sorry I never saw the word freedom in any of what you said till your last post. This is what I hate when we get off on politics many of our beliefs get misconstrued and taken out of context.

How you ever thought I want government to control our lives is beyond me. What I want is accountability in the way we treat our fellow man and my freakin taxes used with some accountability. A 40 billion profit is outrageous when little of it ever sees the companies infastructure and ends up in personnel bank accounts (their words not mine). These people want you and I to fund the oil drilling. You should follow the senate and house bills closer. I don't mind sharing the costs though... I just wish it was for other than fossil fuel.

Enjoy your Yamaha 2 stroke some smart people have finally phased them out to less polluting engines. I happen to own a Mercury 2 stroke. As for the caribou I hunt them on occasion but never thought of drilling through such a majestic animals head to get to oil. Sorry if I took that statement earlier to heart as to your materialistic values. However I reserve the right to look out over the land and not see the ANWR covered up with pipelines. The day will come when we have a major rupture of the Alaska pipeline that will dwarf the Valdez tragedy. And you and I will pay to clean that up while the oil companies use the legal system to dodge their responsibility.

As for placing labels on people I believe you started the label making with your liberal dislikes. I get a little peeved at people who tack their labels on me. I don't happen to consider myself by any labels.... Notice you didn't like it either.

As for business and government I think the two should go their separate ways but with laws passed to control outright greed and accountability for their actions and laws that protect their ability to compete with foreign imports and laws that protect labor so on and so forth. Please don't get me started on our tax system.... As for the UN they can pack up and go home they have picked the bird feeder dry too many times and left their crap over everything. Spend our money on NATO and the countries that truly want freedoms. The French will be taken over by muslim fundametalism within a decade, they are a lost cause towards the defense of freedom.

Unfortunately discussing politics brings out the bad in all of us and the good in all of us at the same time. The challenge is finding the good in all the bad.

Sorry I don't like beer in the boat so another reason we will probably never fish together I would much rather have a coke in the boat. But fair warning your walleye reef could easily become a 20 year oil oozing mess if one of those tankers ever ever spills its guts. I am assuming here your talking great lakes region where tankers roam. If not you wouldn't like it if you saw what it does to the land regardless.

As I remember we were supposed to be talking about about moving the cost of an electricity distribution failure (should be the companies responsibility) to the consumer while they fix it at the users expense. Oh yeh and what about those fuels cells.....

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Old 04-19-2008, 12:04 PM   #38
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The whole time ignoring the fact that Mahmud Ahmadinejad has 6000 cascading centifuges working night and day to enrich enough uranium to vaporize your little flower party.
As I remember so did Sadaam Hussien, but putting that aside, I find it remarkable that we would expect anything less from middle easterners. I have never seen in writing where we have been given the right to be the only ones capable of vaporizing a nation. Ask Pakistan and India.... And I hope we don't bring up the UN on this subject.

Don't worry though the Israel nation won't let it happen....

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Old 04-19-2008, 01:13 PM   #39
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BigJimmy, did they ever fix the voting in Illinois? It used to be horribly corrupt and the Dems controlled it. That's kinda the way it is in Wisconsin. I'd bet big money that our Governor will be brought up on Federal charges at some point in the future.
In Chicago? Ohh GOD no, it's not corrupt! Christ, whenever news gets too slow around here, the local newspapers just run yet another expose on corruption in the city government. Then there's ex-governor Ryan whose playing tennis in some low security lock-up for the next several years. And let's not forget about Rezko.

Our Governor is a joke. People want him out. I used to work for the city transit agency and it took until this year for the Illinois state legislature to fund a way to re-fund transit to avoid cutting a third of the service and raising fares. And that goofball Blago waited until the final minute to agree to the new plan and he came out of left field with a consession: free rides for seniors. While I'm not against this program, most of the senior citizens that were polled said that many did not necessarily need it. In fact, we all pretty much thought, if you want to give free rides to them, what about low/no-income families or students.

I think that it's only a matter of time before Blago is exposed as being corrupt in addition to being a bird-brain. It's bound to happen with all the slimeballs that are being examined in the Rezko case.

Hey, what was this thread about??
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:30 PM   #40
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When Bush got re-elected for a second term, I was convinced that the voting system was corrupt!
Not me, I looked at who his opponent was and understood the vote.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:32 PM   #41
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Wait until this global warming hoax gets going, and we have to stop using coal for generating power. And nuclear still won't be allowed. Electricity is gonna get real expensive.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:40 PM   #42
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Well thank goodness we're taking our food and making fuel (and not even decent fuel) from it. That should help things!
And using our tax money to do it. Our liberal governor is a real pip. Something like 100,000 btu's of energy to make 10,000 btu's of ethanol from our food. And then my mileage drops from 21 to 17 in my truck when I am forced to burn it at a 10% mix.
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:21 PM   #43
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Not me, I looked at who his opponent was and understood the vote.
Touche, J!
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Old 04-19-2008, 02:49 PM   #44
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Gee Stubie, you seem to care a lot for the environment. How does a guy from Kansas hunt caribou? Did you walk that far North?

I'd guess you probably took a fuel guzzling, CO2 emitting, aluminum built airplane! For what? the pleasure of killing an animal who was no threat to you? Meat other than that you can get at a local store? ...and so on.

That said, I own a gun and a fishing rod (your reading that Silk?) and I don't really care where you hunt, just don't be too self-righteous about the environment! (were all to blame somehow)

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Old 04-19-2008, 03:27 PM   #45
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Silk - that is probably the most intelligent post i've read on this message board anywhere. i was watching opera the other day about her show trying to "teach" americans to live with less excesses.. wow how the families cried to have their TV reduced to 1 hour a day.

it was easy for our parents to live within their means because that's all they had, their means. but now adays, you have banks willing to give you mortages you can't afford and credit cards fooling you into beliving your means have been extended. the lies will catch up to you in the end.

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