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Old 03-18-2011, 10:04 AM   #16
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THHN loose wire thru buried conduit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bob22 View Post
For pulling, I used a mason's line with a bit of plastic bag tied to one end of the conduit. Had my son start shop vac at other end; air draft pulled string end with a bit of a plastic bag tied to the string (sort of acts like parachute to capture air)and done. This was about 40' with 2 elbows. I was amazed it worked.
Thats exactly how I would do it for wires this size. When you get to bigger wire you will need rope. Same method except use the string to pull the rope in.
They make special foam plugs that can be used instead of the plastic bag that can be a pain sometimes. You suck them through just like the bag. The foam plugs are sold for the conduit size and called a "mouse" by electricians.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
Post #10 OP has 1" buried
Plenty big enough.

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Old 03-18-2011, 11:39 AM   #17
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THHN loose wire thru buried conduit?


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Originally Posted by tpolk View Post
no interference problem with electric and security in same pipe?
like Jim said, i have two conduits, the electric pipe is 1", the security one is 0.5".
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:40 AM   #18
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THHN loose wire thru buried conduit?


also, i dunno about rope but i just used fishtape for the security wire and plan to do the same for the fat sucker.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:47 AM   #19
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THHN loose wire thru buried conduit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bob22 View Post
For pulling, I used a mason's line with a bit of plastic bag tied to one end of the conduit. Had my son start shop vac at other end; air draft pulled string end with a bit of a plastic bag tied to the string (sort of acts like parachute to capture air)and done. This was about 40' with 2 elbows. I was amazed it worked.
then you would simply be ecstatic with some of the lines I have pulled. 3-400 feet isn't uncommon and a few longer than that. I know guys that have pulled much further than that.

and yes, using basically the same system as you have. I tend to stay away from masons line though. I prefer line intended for the purpose. In my hand, I have some "Duraline bonded nylon conduit fish line #9". It has a 98 pound break strength and is smaller than a masons line (at least what I see them typically use) Smaller means less weight and less surface area to cause friction (resistance)

I prefer to use a very lightweight bag such as the material used in Walmart bags. I take a piece about 3 times the diameter of the pipe (it can be square or irregular even). Pinch the center and let the plastic hang down from that point. Tie the string securely to this pinched point. When putting this into the pipe, use your finger and poke the center into the pipe with the string side facing you. That causes the plastic to act like a parachute like bob spoke of.

There are blowers and suckers available to use. A shop vac works fine for runs less than 100 feet, sometimes a bit further. For longer runs, a blower tends to work better and sometimes it takes both in combination.

once you get the line through, tie it to a larger rope (1/4" should be plenty large for this). the string WILL cut through the PVC as it tightens on a 90 turn so try to not pull to hard on the string. Once it cuts into the pipe, it makes things more difficult.



warning: if this line is underground and the ends are above the middle, there is likely water in the line. One of a journeyman's favorite things to do is have an apprentice watch one end of the conduit while using a blower on the other end. I have made fountains of solid water 10' tall (it was a 4" pipe and had better than 100 gallons of water in it and was using a compressed air system to blow it out) and the spray much higher. It usually only takes once for an apprentice to learn to not do that again.

The water isn't going to hurt anything but just be aware so you don't take a shower.

If you have the facilities to blow it out, you should. It makes it less messy and usually makes it a bit easier to pull the wire. You can even drag a swab through the line if there is dirt in the pipe (which happens more than one might think)

If there is water in the pipe, it makes blowing a line in more difficult.

PVC is sticky when trying to pull wire so wire lubricant helps a lot. 35' isn't very far but sometimes even that can be a PITA so lube would be a good idea.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:49 AM   #20
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THHN loose wire thru buried conduit?


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Originally Posted by amakarevic View Post
also, i dunno about rope but i just used fishtape for the security wire and plan to do the same for the fat sucker.
If you have a fishtape handy, that would work just fine and is a lot faster.

Run it in, tie a rag to the end and swab the pipe prior to pulling in the wire.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:12 PM   #21
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THHN loose wire thru buried conduit?


Reading this made me think of what I found the other day:
At the old house we had the main service panel in the garage, then i had a 150'- 1.5" conduit run to a back shed to feed a sub panel. I removed the sub panel and feeder cables when we moved. Never capped the feeder line, just left it open. I went back the other day to do somethig with my air compressor and needed to pop a breaker in for compressor power. When I removed my main panel front I found allof the clay sealant from the main 200 amp feeder lines was chewed to bits and there was plenty of room for a mouse to enter the 2" main feeder line ! We are selling the house in a week and this is bad to say the least! I quickly found some pocket gopher poison and poured some down the conduit pipes. Then I capped off the 1.5" line in the main panel and left the front cover off in case he was in the 2" main feeder line and decided to crawl back out. In whch case he hopefully now can jump out, and run rampant in the garage. I returned 3 days later and no signs of mickey so I cleaned up the clay sealant and added some more to plug the incoming cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
then you would simply be ecstatic with some of the lines I have pulled. 3-400 feet isn't uncommon and a few longer than that. I know guys that have pulled much further than that.

and yes, using basically the same system as you have. I tend to stay away from masons line though. I prefer line intended for the purpose. In my hand, I have some "Duraline bonded nylon conduit fish line #9". It has a 98 pound break strength and is smaller than a masons line (at least what I see them typically use) Smaller means less weight and less surface area to cause friction (resistance)

I prefer to use a very lightweight bag such as the material used in Walmart bags. I take a piece about 3 times the diameter of the pipe (it can be square or irregular even). Pinch the center and let the plastic hang down from that point. Tie the string securely to this pinched point. When putting this into the pipe, use your finger and poke the center into the pipe with the string side facing you. That causes the plastic to act like a parachute like bob spoke of.

There are blowers and suckers available to use. A shop vac works fine for runs less than 100 feet, sometimes a bit further. For longer runs, a blower tends to work better and sometimes it takes both in combination.

once you get the line through, tie it to a larger rope (1/4" should be plenty large for this). the string WILL cut through the PVC as it tightens on a 90 turn so try to not pull to hard on the string. Once it cuts into the pipe, it makes things more difficult.



warning: if this line is underground and the ends are above the middle, there is likely water in the line. One of a journeyman's favorite things to do is have an apprentice watch one end of the conduit while using a blower on the other end. I have made fountains of solid water 10' tall (it was a 4" pipe and had better than 100 gallons of water in it and was using a compressed air system to blow it out) and the spray much higher. It usually only takes once for an apprentice to learn to not do that again.

The water isn't going to hurt anything but just be aware so you don't take a shower.

If you have the facilities to blow it out, you should. It makes it less messy and usually makes it a bit easier to pull the wire. You can even drag a swab through the line if there is dirt in the pipe (which happens more than one might think)

If there is water in the pipe, it makes blowing a line in more difficult.

PVC is sticky when trying to pull wire so wire lubricant helps a lot. 35' isn't very far but sometimes even that can be a PITA so lube would be a good idea.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:48 PM   #22
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THHN loose wire thru buried conduit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by crankcase View Post
Reading this made me think of what I found the other day:
:
that is the kind of thing that gives me nightmares. Mice do chew insulation sometimes and it would obviously be where the wire was dry. If the pipe subsequently fills with water, you can end up with a short and the worst part; if it is a high resistance short, it may not trip a breaker. You could actually have energized water in the pipe. Running a metal fishtape down a pipe with those energized conductors could cause a very bad situation.

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