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Old 09-28-2008, 09:07 PM   #16
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
You can install tandem breakers in the bottom 10 positions in that panel, for a total of 40 circuits.
How do you get that? OP has 20 circuit panels, not 30 circuit.

I believe that is a generic label for a 20 circuit panel as well as a 30-40 circuit panel.

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Old 09-28-2008, 09:32 PM   #17
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Even if it is only a 20 space it is 99.9% sure that it is a 20/40.

When was the last 20/20 or 20/30 200 amp panel anyone saw???

Yes, the label is misleading. According to it HH is correct, but according to the original post Nap is correct.
Either way, if it is a 20/40 then the WHOLE panel can be filled with twins.
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:07 PM   #18
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


from the pic, it appears that it is only a 20 circuit. No tandems indicated in the upper 20 circuits at all.

the only place tandems are indicated are in the bottom 10, which being a 20 circuit panel, aren;t there.
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:57 AM   #19
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


I get that, but have you ever seen a straight 20 space 200A panel?
I haven't.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:30 AM   #20
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Nothing against the OP, but I would tend to trust the panel information sheet before I would the info from the OP. According to the sheet, it is a 30 space/40 circuit 200A panel.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:20 AM   #21
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Relevance?

Al is probably a billionaire. I seriously doubt he is a DIY'er.
Same relevance as your post. None.
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
Nothing against the OP, but I would tend to trust the panel information sheet before I would the info from the OP. According to the sheet, it is a 30 space/40 circuit 200A panel.
Thats exactly what it is. This panel is a 'slim line side clip challenger panel' it will accept 30 type C full size single pole breakers (no side clip) or 20 type C's and 20 type A slim lines. So 30 or 40 single pole circuits. The type A side clips are like GE 1/2" thqp's only they have a side mounted clip. You have to order them either left side clip or right side clip in order to stack them. The slim lines type A also come two pole with handle tie bar. A single pole 20 will be TBL120 or TBR120 depending on what side clip you need. The first one of these I worked on I went in to the supply house and asked for some challenger slim lines and counter guy said left or right clip....I hate it when the guy can tell you haven't the foggiest idea.


Last edited by Stubbie; 09-29-2008 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 09-29-2008, 12:04 PM   #23
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


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Same relevance as your post. None.
I guess I'm not gonna get an answer either.
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Old 09-29-2008, 12:06 PM   #24
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Quote:
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I guess I'm not gonna get an answer either.
It is relevant.... without Al, we wouldn't have this internet thing we post to.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:17 PM   #25
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Gentlemen;

Thank you all for your input. The two panels in my home are 20 slot, not the 30 slot as shown in the diagram attached to the panel door (see picture above). That's exactly my dilema. Does it become a 10 + 20 with the tandems or can it become a 0 + 40 with all tandems? The 10 + 20 would give enough circuits with some planning and load balancing to do what I would like to do. As you can see in the branch circuit column on the spec sheet, it lists that the panel will accept the tandem in all branch slots. The bus bar is consistent from top to bottom and requires the tandem breakers (1" total width) versus the mini 1/2" breakers. The breaker slides onto the contact tab perpendicular to the bus bar spaced at 1" intervals starting at 1/2" from the top of the slot. My point is, the bus bar design does not restrict (as some panels do) the placement of the standard vs the tandem breakers in top portion only. If a common design is 40 circuits per 200 AMP, then why would these 200 amp panels be different?

Again thanks for the input as I am learning a lot about the differences in the equipment.
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:25 PM   #26
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
I get that, but have you ever seen a straight 20 space 200A panel?
I haven't.
I am not familiar with Challenger panels. I have seen stranger things.

All I know is if you look at the pic, there is a hard line after the top 20 breaker slots and it shows only the larger breakers indicated for that section. OP states there are 20 spaces, not 30.

That is why I believe the label is a generic label. It appears to include the 20 circuit panel and the 30/40 circuit panel.

the fact the panel will not accpet the 1/2 inch breakers supports my point. The 30/40 panel is designed to accept 1/2 breakers on the last 10 spaces (5 each side)

as stubbie was posting, the smaller breakers are the side clip type and it indicates these in the last 10 spaces. If these cannot be used in the OP's panel (he said he couldn't), then he has an only 20 circuit panel. It would technically be illegal to use the 1" piggyback breakers because it is listed as only a 20 circuit panel.
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:28 PM   #27
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


NAP said

Quote:
I believe that is a generic label for a 20 circuit panel as well as a 30-40 circuit panel.
It certainly appears you are right.... the challengers I'm familiar with I believe were manufactured by Sylvania and then bought by westinghouse and then bought by cutler hammer....Sounds like our banking system....

Sooooo I better read the whole thread next time....

I don't see how you add circuits to it if it is full, at least not and stay within the listing.
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:54 PM   #28
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Again thanks for your thoughts. This weekend I was on the professional chatroom lurking and I discovered that the Cutler Hammer tandem breakers are acceptable to use as Cutler has put out a notice to tape to the Challenger Panels stating that the BR2020 etc breakers are certified by NEC(?) for use. Any ideas where I could obtain actual manufacturer's spec/ code rating, interpretation? The whole thing doesn't make real sense to me in that only 20 circuits for a 200 amp main panel would have been designed. I am a degreed Mechanical Engineer and I run into these quirky situations and you have to drill down to the original specs, written word, certification which may or may not be the typical interpretation or use. Thanks agin for your insight.
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:55 PM   #29
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Great.

Now we can discuss the stupidity of making a 200 amp panel with only 20 spaces.

Last edited by nap; 09-29-2008 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:19 AM   #30
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Tandem Breakers vs Capacity


Quote:
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I guess I'm not gonna get an answer either.
Get an answer to what Petey? I'm confused. The relevance of my post? I answered that with "none." I had time on my hands that day and posted something completely irrelevant and uncalled for. How is that for an answer?

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