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Old 12-20-2013, 01:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Sorry, but you need
to look this up, since I am not going to do yur homework for you.

It is in the NEC, so I do not know why you think that we make this stuff up.
i guess i'll do the homework for you
  • only kitchen receptacles serving countertop areas need to have gfci protection, not everything in the kitchen
  • while a gas range is permitted to be on a sabc, it is not required to be. if a separate circuit, it would not be part of the sabc and thus not bound by those requirements. no automatic need for a 20 amp circuit.
anything else?

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Old 12-20-2013, 01:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
All the OP needs to do, is find out which SABC is not havily loaded in the Kitchen, and just banch off of that one on that wall, as long as it has a ground.
Ok, no problem. There is a ground.

I'm still curious; is there some reason I can't use one of the hots and the neutral in the 50A circuit to get the receptacle I need?
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:26 PM   #18
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It will be cheaper to run a new circuit vs modifying the old.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:34 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JKeefe View Post
Ok, no problem. There is a ground.

I'm still curious; is there some reason I can't use one of the hots and the neutral in the 50A circuit to get the receptacle I need?
the biggest issue is that you won't be able to find a 15 or 20 amp receptacle that can terminate the existing conductors on the 50 amp circuit. you'll need reducing lugs or connectors or similar to connect the existing #6 conductors (assumed) to the #14 or #12 you'll need for the new receptacle. unlikely that will all fit in a single gang box. you'll need to do the same thing at the panelboard and install a single pole 15 or 20 amp breaker for the circuit.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:36 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by itsnotrequired View Post
i guess i'll do the homework for you
  • only kitchen receptacles serving countertop areas need to have gfci protection, not everything in the kitchen
  • while a gas range is permitted to be on a sabc, it is not required to be. if a separate circuit, it would not be part of the sabc and thus not bound by those requirements. no automatic need for a 20 amp circuit.
anything else?
May want to go back and re-read that again. That circuit IS covered under the rules for kitchens, and under the new rules, it has to be protected by a GCFI, and also needs to be a 20 amp circuit.

I am probably more well versed on the stuff dealing with Kitchen/food prep/dining areas in the house, than you realize.

This is not the place to argue about it. Keep it on topic, and just answer the OP questions.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
It will be cheaper to run a new circuit vs modifying the old.
If the existing is easily accessible, is grounded, it would be easy and cheaper. As long as they do not have just two 20 amp circuits, feeding all outlets in the Kitchen, I see no problem with just pulling a feeder for an old work box for behind the new gas stove.

When I designed out the branch circuit for the wall that my gas stove is on, I used one 20 amp circuit for that wall. It is feeding three countertop outlets,and the outlet for the 120 volt feed for the gas stove.

This is probably the easier part of the project for the OP. I really do not see why some are dragging it out, and making it a bigger deal than it is. It is just adding one outlet for the stove. The OP is not planning on rewiring the whole Kitchen.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #22
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If you go by the 2014, the only way the 120V range recept (behind the range) would require GFI protection is if it was within 6' of the sink.

You could supply the range with a 15A circuit because that receptacle is not serving the wall receptacle requirements of 210.52 A. Unless the appliance has odd specs such as in the OP, often times it is pulled off the lighting circuit.

edit: My second statement is based off the 2011 and prior code cycles.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
May want to go back and re-read that again. That circuit IS covered under the rules for kitchens, and under the new rules, it has to be protected by a GCFI, and also needs to be a 20 amp circuit.

I am probably more well versed on the stuff dealing with Kitchen/food prep/dining areas in the house, than you realize.

This is not the place to argue about it. Keep it on topic, and just answer the OP questions.
well, your first statement is wrong, even for 2014. but whatever...

to the op, you can run a separate 15 amp circuit from your panel to the range. it doesn't need gfci protection (unless the receptacle is within 6' of a sink). you can plug it into that nearby receptacle you mentioned but i understand the cord would be unsightly. you could put a new receptacle behind the range and tie into that existing receptacle but you would need to open up the wall. that connection would need #12 conductors (since that existing receptacle is on a 20 amp circuit).
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
If you go by the 2014, the only way the 120V range recept (behind the range) would require GFI protection is if it was within 6' of the sink.

You could supply the range with a 15A circuit because that receptacle is not serving the wall receptacle requirements of 210.52 A. Unless the appliance has odd specs such as in the OP, often times it is pulled off the lighting circuit.

edit: My second statement is based off the 2011 and prior code cycles.
Six foot rule has not applied for a very long time in kitchens, and was before the 2014 code even came out. See http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/nec-re...errupters-gfci

The article is citing the 2002 code reference BTW. Now under 2014, Dishwashers, Disposals, Trash Compactors, Any other appliance, is now required to be GFCI protected, where as before they were not under prior code cycles.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #25
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it doesn't need gfci protection (unless the receptacle is within 6' of a sink).
That would only be true if the fridge was somewhere other than the kitchen...or they were already on the 2014 cycle.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:10 PM   #26
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From the 2011...

After reading, show me specifically where it states that IN A KITCHEN, receptacles have to be GFI protected within 6' of a sink.

Quote:
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-
ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
210.8(A)(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuitinterrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to
electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating
equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance
with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
Informational Note: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power
supply requirements for fire alarm systems.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the
requirements of 210.52(G).
(6) Kitchens— where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Sinks — located in areas other than kitchens where
receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink

(8) Boathouses
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:13 PM   #27
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That would only be true if the fridge was somewhere other than the kitchen...or they were already on the 2014 cycle.
thanks, forgot it only applied to sinks not in a kitchen!

to the op, no gfci protection required if behind the range, even within 6' of a sink.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:21 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
The article is citing the 2002 code reference BTW. Now under 2014, Dishwashers, Disposals, Trash Compactors, Any other appliance, is now required to be GFCI protected, where as before they were not under prior code cycles.
where are you getting this from? only dishwashers were added in 2014 as an appliance requiring gfci protection, not all appliances in a kitchen.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:32 PM   #29
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"The 1996 edition of the Code continued the addition of new areas and requirements to the ever growing list. All kitchen counter-top areas must now be served by outlets with GFCI protection, regardless of the distance to any sinks. The exception that allowed outside outlets on a kitchen circuit has been dropped."

"A Short summary of the history of GFCI protection for your Home:

1971: Outdoors (direct grade access), & within 15 feet of a swimming pool
1975: Bathroom receptacles
1978: Garages, Fountains
1981: Whirlpools, tubs, etc.
1984: Motels in bathrooms; replacements for non-grounded type
1987: Kitchens within 6' of the sink, (1) in a basement; boathouses
1990: All in unfinished basements; crawl spaces
1993: Wet bar sinks; Replacements in other required areas
1996: All kitchen counter-top outlets; dedicated circuits in bathrooms; All outdoor outlets, in sheds, balconies, whether accessible from grade level or not; Electric car chargers."
http://www.kbelectric.biz/gfci.htm
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:34 PM   #30
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where are you getting this from? only dishwashers were added in 2014 as an appliance requiring gfci protection, not all appliances in a kitchen.
You obviously have not read anything that I have posted. Also all you want to do is argue about this. This is not the place for it. Keep it on topic, regarding the OP questions.

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