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Old 05-04-2013, 11:03 AM   #91
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Switch Legs - Need Neutral, Can I....?


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Could you please state the sentencing that wins it in (b)(3)

The NEC is a permissive document, it doesn't tell you what you can do, only what you CAN'T do....

In this example, if you are using nonferrous wiring method, and the conductors are not in the same cable, and you are using metal boxes, then you would have to cut a slot between the knockouts, but SINCE we are using PLASTIC boxes, nothing has to be done...

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Old 05-04-2013, 11:06 AM   #92
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Switch Legs - Need Neutral, Can I....?


Take this example, i run a xx-2, and a xx-3 cable to a bathroom exhaust fan, i run JUST the neutral conductor in the xx-2 cable, the fan, light, nightlight in the xx-3 cable... at the fan unit which IS a metal enclosure, if I use two separate connectors, then I HAVE to cut a slot between the two knockouts to meet code with 300.20 (B).

This section is all about inductive heating, if everything is non-ferrous, its pretty hard for something to heat up and cause insulation damage.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:10 AM   #93
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I am currently in a code update class (teacher is on the code making panel). I asked it as a class question and they agree with my interpretation. So do we go separate ways and agree to disagree?

My last question, why do you think 300.3(B)(3) exist to begin with???
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:14 AM   #94
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Question:
Q: In the August edition of Electrical Contractor, CODEFAQS a reader writes that he is using two 14/2 cables for three-way switches in the houses he is wiring. Your response to him that it is ok as long as you re-identify the white wire according to NEC 200.7 is misleading. Yes the white wire used for switch legs must be re-identified, but this practice of using two 14/2 cables for a three way is not permitted by NEC Section 300.3(B) which requires all conductors of the same circuit shall be contained within the same raceway, cable etc.


Answer:
Thank you for commenting. Yes, NEC 300.3(B) requires all conductors of the same circuit to be contained in the same cable – unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (4). NEC 300.3(B)(3) permits conductors in wiring methods with a non-metallic sheath to be run in different cables. NEC 300.3(B) requires all circuit conductors of an individual circuit to be grouped to reduce inductive heating. This is not a problem with nonferrous wiring methods.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:16 AM   #95
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I see your argument but I dont agree with your interpretation of the code for (B)(3) we're going to have to agree to disagree. Good debate man, I enjoyed it.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:16 AM   #96
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I am currently in a code update class (teacher is on the code making panel). I asked it as a class question and they agree with my interpretation. So do we go separate ways and agree to disagree?
And they are all misinterpreting the NEC...
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:17 AM   #97
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I see your argument but I dont agree with your interpretation of the code for (B)(3) we're going to have to agree to disagree. Good debate man, I enjoyed it.
likewise, I always like to be checked, just google 300.3(B)(3) and read deep on it, you will find some old threads from Mike Holts forum discussing this subject.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:22 AM   #98
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http://www.electrical-contractor.net...ers_again.html
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/had-no-choice-24684/



Happy reading my friend...

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Old 05-04-2013, 11:31 AM   #99
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likewise, I always like to be checked, just google 300.3(B)(3) and read deep on it, you will find some old threads from Mike Holts forum discussing this subject.
See if you literally had a single conductor I might be incline to agree but you have a prefab cable with 2+ other wires subject to the single energized wire inducing a current in them,granted the ground dissipates said induced currents if properly tied in, but if the other conductor(s) are not connnected in said raceway there might be the possibility of a static current build up waiting to be discharged.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:33 AM   #100
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See if you literally had a single conductor I might be incline to agree but you have a prefab cable with 2+ other wires subject to the single energized wire inducing a current in them,granted the ground dissipates said induced currents if properly tied in, but if the other conductor(s) are not connnected in said raceway there might be the possibility of a static current build up waiting to be discharged.


You are over thinking this.... its about inductive heating and ferrous materials, since we are using NON-ferrous materials, the inductive heating is a non issue... the grounding conductor does not have anything to do with this natural occurrence...
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:36 AM   #101
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Read the links I posted, and enjoy some crow, its not that bad tasting. i've eaten my share...
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #102
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Ill read this in its entirety in a bit. But I feel Its yet another code article easily fought with an inspector because of its lack of clarity and multiple interpretations. Its tough saying which view is better rather in those cases I do follow the interpretation I feel more comfortable with.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:38 AM   #103
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Ill read this in its entirety in a bit. But I feel Its yet another code article easily fought with an inspector because of its lack of clarity and multiple interpretations. Its tough saying which view is better rather in those cases I do follow the interpretation I feel more comfortable with.
there is no lack of clarity, it really is that simple.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #104
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Its tough saying which view is better rather in those cases I do follow the interpretation I feel more comfortable with.
That is such a cop out move, if you were an inspector, you would fail a completely legal install because you didn't read/comprehend the NEC correctly.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #105
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That is such a cop out move, if you were an inspector, you would fail a completely legal install because you didn't read/comprehend the NEC correctly.
Your entitled to your opinion. I just realized we are going to keep butting heads. I see no need. Good debate buddy

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