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Old 04-28-2013, 09:04 AM   #16
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Switch Legs - Need Neutral, Can I....?


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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
I don't see any exception, all I see is confirmation of my claim.

(3) Nonferrous Wiring Methods. Conductors in wiring
methods with a nonmetallic or other nonmagnetic sheath,
where run in different raceways, auxiliary gutters, cable
trays, trenches, cables, or cords, shall comply with the provisions
of 300.20(B)
. Conductors in single-conductor Type
MI cable with a nonmagnetic sheath shall comply with the
provisions of 332.31. Conductors of single-conductor Type
MC cable with a nonmagnetic sheath shall comply with the
provisions of 330.31, 330.116, and 300.20(B).
300.20(B) is moot with non metallic boxes... Read the heading of 300.20, Induced Currents in Metal Enclosuers or Metal Raceways
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:06 AM   #17
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nvm...was reading the wrong section
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:29 AM   #18
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Switch Legs - Need Neutral, Can I....?


You are assuming the 2 lights are fed from the same circuit. If there are 2 circuits involved, he would be using the neutral of one as the return of the other. That would be a violation.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:42 AM   #19
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You are assuming the 2 lights are fed from the same circuit. If there are 2 circuits involved, he would be using the neutral of one as the return of the other. That would be a violation.

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Originally Posted by herdfan View Post
Ok here is the problem. I need to put devices that require a neutral into a box that has 2 switches, both on the same circuit.

Thanks
..............
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #20
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..............
Mea culpa
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:07 AM   #21
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No it's not the same. There is an exception in 404 for switch loops.
Any issues with this setup as far as 300.3(B) is concerned? (This is of course assuming all the wiring is done with non- ferrous materials.)


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Old 04-30-2013, 03:37 PM   #22
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Switch Legs - Need Neutral, Can I....?


It is a 1930's house which was rewired by the former owner. It has plastic remodel boxes and NM wiring at least as far as I could see. What is in the walls covered up is anyone's guess. As noted, both lights are fed off the same circuit.

Thanks for the responses.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:22 PM   #23
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It is a 1930's house which was rewired by the former owner. It has plastic remodel boxes and NM wiring at least as far as I could see. What is in the walls covered up is anyone's guess. As noted, both lights are fed off the same circuit.

Thanks for the responses.
I say you are good to go.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:36 PM   #24
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Switch Legs - Need Neutral, Can I....?


In my opinion, I wouldnt advise doing so, If he goes ahead with his scenario. If the black was being used from one of the switch loops and fed by the reidentified white of the other, You would be creating an imbalance. Regardless of how the magnetic field generated will dissipate and what raceway is used. Its just (in my eyes)not a good practice to do so, it still has the potential to build up heat and be unsafe. I suggest run a new feed for your device.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:52 PM   #25
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In my opinion, I wouldnt advise doing so, If he goes ahead with his scenario. If the black was being used from one of the switch loops and fed by the reidentified white of the other, You would be creating an imbalance. Regardless of how the magnetic field generated will dissipate and what raceway is used. Its just (in my eyes)not a good practice to do so, it still has the potential to build up heat and be unsafe. I suggest run a new feed for your device.
But legal by the NEC... the only issue is EMFs...
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:57 PM   #26
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But legal by the NEC... the only issue is EMFs...
That just seems wrong. I dont have a code article to rebuke that yet, but ill let you know what I find.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:58 PM   #27
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That just seems wrong. I dont have a code article to rebuke that yet, but ill let you know what I find.

I already posted all the code sections that allow it in this thread.
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:18 AM   #28
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I'd say the OP is good to go. A bit creative, but better than trying to use a ground wire to provide that neutral for the timer switch(es).
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:02 AM   #29
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That just seems wrong. I dont have a code article to rebuke that yet, but ill let you know what I find.
I'm in the same boat as you, and since I worked till 1AM, my mind isn't in any shape to get back into this discussion.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:25 PM   #30
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I already posted all the code sections that allow it in this thread.
I told you i'd get back to you and i did! lol

Article 300.5(I) Conductors of the same circuit
All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors shall be installed in the same raceway or cable or shall be installed in close proximity in the same trench.

I understand this article is for Underground installations, but it still makes the same point. You need to address the inductive reactance being created by making sure the hot and neutral, or hot and return(sw loop) are in the same raceway or are in close proximity, which those two lights are not in close proximity except at the switch box.
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