DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Electrical (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/)
-   -   switch to garbage disposal question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/switch-garbage-disposal-question-138408/)

tard01 03-26-2012 11:03 PM

switch to garbage disposal question
 
hi guys. just put in a new dishwasher (working fine), but i created another issue in hte process.

my understanding/guess at the wiring...
20amp (matches dishwasher)
12/2 wire.

ok, so simply, the dishwasher, garbage disposal, and the switch that controls the garbage disposal are all on one breaker.

original config:
dishwasher outlet was an outlet. 2 lines in the junction.
garbage disposal outlet: 1 line in the junction
switch on counter: only black/white


so the 2 wires in the dishwasher outlet... i believe one is an "in" and one line is an "out" -- where that out goes, i'm unsure. My original thought was to the disposal outlet, but that outlet only has 1 line in it - so not sure how it'd tie to the switch if that was the case.



what i've done:

I originally only had the dishwasher/"in"-line together
dishwasher worked fine, garbage disposal 0v

so i figured i just disconnected it, so i combined the in/out lines AND the diswasher (all 12/2) together (red). I pigtailed them sufficiently and wire nutted them.

no change - i get 0-3v at the disposal outlet.
I measure the 3 lines tied to each other at the junction and all 3 seem to be showing 120v.

I pulled the switch out, measured 60v with it OFF, and 0v with it IN (not a typo, correct off/on order).

So i thought the switch might be faulty. I cut the switch off and measured black/white and still read 60v. (just testing to wires, no switch)

so somewhere i'm dropping half my voltage. note: the switch doesn't have a ground connected to it.



At this point, i'm not sure of a few things:
1) is it expected to be at 60v and the full 120v is intended to be sent to the end-connection? (read that regarding lights in another post)
2) does it sound right that the "out" line frmo the washer supplies the disposal?


-----
random thoughts:
a) thought about removing the washer and just reconnecting the 2 lines in the washer junction and seeing my results

b) not sure how the switch connects to the disposal. they each only have 1 line coming into them, with no outs.



if not obvious, i'm a novice. first real attempt at electrical work. tried my best on this, but just about reaching my limits.

Any advice would be sincerely appreciated.



note - the switch has no function on the dishwasher itself, only the disposal outlet.



the only concern i have with the wiring was done previous to me doing anything.
the original 2 lines in the washer junction had their grounds very thoroughly pigtailed (almost 3 inches of pigtail tight). I didn't think i could do a better job than that, so i left it there and tied the ground of the dishwasher to the 1-2 inches of excess from that pigtail. I figured as long as they all came together at a similar logical point, the effect would be the same -- is that a faulty assumption? Is it possible i need to touch specifically to the other ground it's not physically contacting (even though it logically appears to be?)



as you can see, i've put a decent amount of newbie effort into this and drawing blanks.

k_buz 03-26-2012 11:11 PM

I'm a little confused about your post...

Early on you say that you have 2 cables in the dishwasher outlet box, but later on you say that there are 3 lines in the junction. Is this a different junction than the DW outlet? am I misreading something? is there a typo?

And as a little side question, if you were just replacing the dishwasher, why did you open up any of the junction boxes? If the dishwasher really had an outlet for it, why didn't you just unplug it?

tard01 03-26-2012 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 886326)
I'm a little confused about your post...

Early on you say that you have 2 cables in the dishwasher outlet box, but later on you say that there are 3 lines in the junction. Is this a different junction than the DW outlet? am I misreading something? is there a typo?


the 3rd cable is hte one i added from the dishwasher itself.

tard01 03-26-2012 11:14 PM

i'm trying to post pics, having issues getting it from my phone to my email.

and for sanity sake, yes, i remembered to trip the switch on when testing the voltage of the disposal.

k_buz 03-26-2012 11:18 PM

Seems as if there is a missing junction box somewhere or there is something you are missing when you are checking the boxes.

tard01 03-26-2012 11:21 PM

3 Attachment(s)
here are the pics

k_buz 03-26-2012 11:22 PM

If you have a basement, check the area under the sink for a junction box with 3 wire in it. But even if that was the case, all you would have to do is splice the wires together in the dishwasher junction box.

tard01 03-26-2012 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 886326)
I'm a little confused about your post...



And as a little side question, if you were just replacing the dishwasher, why did you open up any of the junction boxes? If the dishwasher really had an outlet for it, why didn't you just unplug it?


originally there was only an outlet. the dishwasher i have replaced has its own junction instead of a power line. so i removed the outlet and tied the junction into the house junction.

i made sure to check for compatibility (20amp)

tard01 03-26-2012 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 886335)
If you have a basement, check the area under the sink for a junction box with 3 wire in it. But even if that was the case, all you would have to do is splice the wires together in the dishwasher junction box.


no basement. all other outlets seem to be 100% healthy.
and no matter how i came up with an answer, i never found a method to not tie 3 lines together.

k_buz 03-26-2012 11:27 PM

You mention something about (red) in your OP...I don't see any red wires...are there red wires anywhere?

tard01 03-26-2012 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 886340)
You mention something about (red) in your OP...I don't see any red wires...are there red wires anywhere?


i just meant the red wire nuts - so appropriate for tieing 3 12gauge wires together. i pigtailed them prior to nutting them. i redid it a few times thinking this was the problem, but all meter tests show 120v, so i don't think its to blame any more.

k_buz 03-26-2012 11:30 PM

Yeah, you would have had to taken the cord off the old dishwasher and put it on the new one. The way you have it now, it is against code two different ways.

1) you will have an open junction box
2) you don't have a legal disconnect

tard01 03-26-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 886344)
Yeah, you would have had to taken the cord off the old dishwasher and put it on the new one. The way you have it now, it is against code two different ways.

1) you will have an open junction box
2) you don't have a legal disconnect


1) when complete, i will address. it's open for truobleshooting
2) not sure what you mean by legal disconnect?

k_buz 03-26-2012 11:45 PM

There are a couple things you could try.

1) Turn off power to that circuit, and make sure, I mean take a voltage tester and check the voltage on the wires (not the screw terminals) going to the disposal outlet. If they are truly dead, remove those wires from the backstabs and wrap them around the screw terminals on the recept. Then reconnect the splices in the dishwasher box (if they aren't already) and see if the disposal works.

2) Again make sure power is off. Pull the disposal switch out of its box and remove the backstabbed wires and wrap those around the terminals. Turn power back on and see if that fixes the problem

3) It appears that there is a missing junction somewhere. I would have no idea where to tell you to look for it. If the above 2 suggestions don't work, or you don't feel comfortable doing those yourself, call a local electrician. He can see alot more than anyone here can.

k_buz 03-26-2012 11:48 PM

There must be a means of disconnecting power to the dishwasher within eyesight when you are working on the dishwasher. If you are working on the dishwasher and can see the breaker panel, that would be acceptable as well.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Copyright 2003-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved