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Old 02-23-2009, 09:27 AM   #16
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Surge protectors


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Originally Posted by geno2 View Post
Hi all, thanks for the quick replies. Some specific questions:..

...
dynamo- Any idea which (APC or Belkin) units did better?
...

Thanks again to all! God bless. Gene
I used to be a Belkin fan, but it seems to me that APC has raised the bar the past few years, so I'm leaning towards them for my UPS equipment.
As far as Multi-Tap power bars, I'd hazard a guess and say they are at par with each other.
Look at the equipment protection warranties they offer and see if one appeals to you more than another.
Remember there are many suppliers out there, so cost may a determining factor for you as well.
Happy to help, Gene, my pleasure!

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Old 02-23-2009, 12:10 PM   #17
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So, in effect, some of the purchase price of a protector goes into an insurance premium for the cost of replacing equipment.
If the surge protector somehow manages to defend from surges almost always, it's a good protector and Belkin is a "good risk" (to the insurer).
If it's a bad protector as evidenced from warranty claims it's dropped from production.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:31 PM   #18
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Hi all, this was on another thread...Any other thoughts or experience with this?

Thanks Gene


HELP - with my breaker box. Interesting issue.

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Howdy..I'm new at this but here goes.
I work for an IT company supporting high transaction server systems all over the country. We are an APC dealer, but rarely sell them unless you just want a UPS(battery backup), cause that's all your going to get. The vast majority of UPS systems, do not offer good surge protection no matter what the manufacturers say. If the quality of your system is important to you and you want to add years to it's life, consider purchasing Oneac equipment, by Chloride corp. They offer a combination Isolation Transformer/UPS system that comes in various sizes. The OneAC 404 is the smallest and retails around $395. I'm not trying to sell you one, but this company is the gold standard for us and other companies doing what we do. Many hospitals and laboratories use these to protect their expensive equipment.

On the other hand, consider just an Isolation transformer from either Oneac or other companies like Tripplite for quality line conditioning. If you require battery backup for power outages put an inexpensive UPS behind it $99 from Walmart.

Google "Isolation Transformer" and see what I mean.

PS: Plugging a surger protector into a surge protector defeats the purpose.

Good Luck

Fats
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:27 PM   #19
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Surge protectors


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
So, in effect, some of the purchase price of a protector goes into an insurance premium for the cost of replacing equipment.
If the surge protector somehow manages to defend from surges almost always, it's a good protector and Belkin is a "good risk" (to the insurer).
If it's a bad protector as evidenced from warranty claims it's dropped from production.
LOL!
Never thought of it that way, but a very good point indeed!
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:35 PM   #20
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Surge protectors


Quote:
Originally Posted by geno2 View Post
Hi all, this was on another thread...Any other thoughts or experience with this?

Thanks Gene


HELP - with my breaker box. Interesting issue.

Fats
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Location: Johnson City, TN
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Howdy..I'm new at this but here goes.
I work for an IT company supporting high transaction server systems all over the country. We are an APC dealer, but rarely sell them unless you just want a UPS(battery backup), cause that's all your going to get. The vast majority of UPS systems, do not offer good surge protection no matter what the manufacturers say. If the quality of your system is important to you and you want to add years to it's life, consider purchasing Oneac equipment, by Chloride corp. They offer a combination Isolation Transformer/UPS system that comes in various sizes. The OneAC 404 is the smallest and retails around $395. I'm not trying to sell you one, but this company is the gold standard for us and other companies doing what we do. Many hospitals and laboratories use these to protect their expensive equipment.

On the other hand, consider just an Isolation transformer from either Oneac or other companies like Tripplite for quality line conditioning. If you require battery backup for power outages put an inexpensive UPS behind it $99 from Walmart.

Google "Isolation Transformer" and see what I mean.

PS: Plugging a surger protector into a surge protector defeats the purpose.

Good Luck

Fats
Well, now we're comparing apples to balsa wood?


Of course isolation x-formers and other forms of power conditioning are available, but I'd hazard a guess and say 80% of the public has no use for such an elaborate setup unless they are in a new subdivison where the power has not yet been stabilized by the supplier, or in an area where frequent lightning strikes or brownouts/surges occur, then it's pretty much useless for the average Joe.

Older apartment buildings or multi unit dwellings with outdated wiring may pose problems in the summer when window air conditioners and fridges all kick in at once, for example, but as was stated before...you get what you pay for.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:48 PM   #21
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LOL!
Never thought of it that way, but a very good point indeed!
What's weird is, the Maryland Home Improvement Commission works the same way.
I was never tested on driving nails or building partitions, only on business law and Federal and MD laws governing home improvement, but
if I break somebody's house there is a Guaranty Fund that reimburses the homeowner after the fact (and then the state comes after me for the money).

Belkin replied to my e-mail but I think there's going to be some word games played before I get my answers.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:21 PM   #22
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Hi again,

Actually, I found this to be the troubling sentence:

"The vast majority of UPS systems, do not offer good surge protection no matter what the manufacturers say. "

If true, then a UPS would have to be plugged into a surge protector!

Anyone with experience?

Thanks and God bless. Gene
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:45 AM   #23
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Surge protectors


Quote:
Originally Posted by geno2 View Post
Hi again,

Actually, I found this to be the troubling sentence:

"The vast majority of UPS systems, do not offer good surge protection no matter what the manufacturers say. "

If true, then a UPS would have to be plugged into a surge protector!

Anyone with experience?

Thanks and God bless. Gene
If you have a block diagram of a candidate UPS we can decide.
Once the thing is suppling power from batteries it offers perfect surge protection, no?
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:28 AM   #24
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Surge protectors


Quote:
Originally Posted by geno2 View Post
Hi again,

Actually, I found this to be the troubling sentence:

"The vast majority of UPS systems, do not offer good surge protection no matter what the manufacturers say. "

If true, then a UPS would have to be plugged into a surge protector!

Anyone with experience?

Thanks and God bless. Gene
Most UPS higher end UPS systems ($150-$250 range) have receptacles that offer battery backup, surge protection or both.
I'd say the surge protection on said UPS would have the same suppression electronics as those in power bars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
If you have a block diagram of a candidate UPS we can decide.
Once the thing is suppling power from batteries it offers perfect surge protection, no?
When operating from battery, the UPS is disconnected (hopefully both hot and neutral, otherwise a surge could actually come from a poorly bonded neutral) from the line voltage so the power should be clean.
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Old 02-25-2009, 01:18 PM   #25
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Surge protectors


"If your [sic] going to have a computer and/or television, then you want to have at least 2000 joules"

I need to go to a tech lib. and find a book on designing surge protectors; maybe there is one of those 4" thick handbooks by now on this subject.
What a hassle!
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:58 PM   #26
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http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

in which at least citation talks about the suppressor itself catching fire.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:06 PM   #27
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Surge suppressors can catch fire. It would be a good idea to get one that has thermal fuses across the line, so that when the varistors get to a certain temperature, power is cut to not only the varistors, but the entire equipment.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:41 AM   #28
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Recently, I had a control board (smaller than the palm of my hand) from my 1+ year old refrigerator replaced. I also had a new high end HVAC system installed. Coincidentally, we've had a few power outages in the last month or so.

I'm thinking about installing a panel mounted suppressor.

Looking over information on the Web, I notice that the units have two wires coming out; each one connected to a breaker in the panel, plus a ground connection.

My basic question is, if there is an incoming surge via the power line, how is the surge prevented from going out on any (all) other legs (nanoseconds) before it reaches the suppressor? Shouldn't the surge 'see' the suppressor before it has an opportunity to 'go' elsewhere?

I would also use plug-in units for the refrigerator and other plug-in appliances, but the HVAC system is hard wired and needs to be protected.

Looking for comments, please.

V
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veesubotee View Post
Recently, I had a control board (smaller than the palm of my hand) from my 1+ year old refrigerator replaced. I also had a new high end HVAC system installed. Coincidentally, we've had a few power outages in the last month or so.

I'm thinking about installing a panel mounted suppressor.

Looking over information on the Web, I notice that the units have two wires coming out; each one connected to a breaker in the panel, plus a ground connection.

My basic question is, if there is an incoming surge via the power line, how is the surge prevented from going out on any (all) other legs (nanoseconds) before it reaches the suppressor? Shouldn't the surge 'see' the suppressor before it has an opportunity to 'go' elsewhere?

I would also use plug-in units for the refrigerator and other plug-in appliances, but the HVAC system is hard wired and needs to be protected.

Looking for comments, please.

V
The best protection is at the meterbase. Ask your power company about meter socket surge suppressors or have an electrician install one. This is what I mean.

http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/...-Surge-Adapter
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Old 03-30-2009, 01:03 PM   #30
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While we're on the subject, can anyone convert eJoules [marked on surge suppressor packages] to "real world" joules, the watt-second kind?

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