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Old 07-02-2012, 08:18 AM   #1
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sump pump electrical


I'm running a circuit for my sump pumps. I have a 2x6 vertically mounted above the sump.

I want each pump on its own GFCI so that a single trip does not cause both pumps to fail.

I'm planning to mount two 4" metal boxes to the 2x6, ~6" apart, and I'll interconnect them with MC. I'll also run MC up the 2x6 to the rim joist. From there I'll either convert to NM at a junction box or just continue MC to the breaker box.

Does what I'm describing make the best sense, or is there a better way to mount the two GFCI's (I assume you can't fit both in a single 4" box)? Should I use one of those short metal nipple things to interconnect the two boxes and then just use the conductors pulled from a piece of NM to run from the top box to the bottom box? The boxes don't need to be 6" apart, I was just going to do that so I could throw a staple on the MC and have some room to work.

Thanks

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Old 07-02-2012, 09:13 AM   #2
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Use one of these on a 4" deep square box.

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...9,r:7,s:0,i:97

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Old 07-02-2012, 09:20 AM   #3
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2 gfci's will fit in a 4x4 box. With the cover Jim showed, be sure to connect the ground to the box as well as to the receptacles.
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:10 AM   #4
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I would consider a dedicated single/simplex (Nema 5-15) receptacle for each dedicated circuit and not install a GFCI. This is one appliance where a nuisance trip could be expensive. Also by going simplex you reduce the chance of people plugging other items in like a freezer and such.

I think 2008 code brought in GFCI for sump pumps but if its a dedicated circuit I think you can opt out. Not sure I'm sure some code warriors will chime in.

If you must put in a GFCI here is an interesting one with a single plug (again to stop other things getting plugged into your dedicated circuit). http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-T7591-.../dp/B00462QOCQ

Last edited by curiousB; 07-02-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:24 AM   #5
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The exception that allowed a simplex receptacle was removed with either the 2008 or 2011 NEC.

There are GFI receptacles with an audible alarm should it trip. Pass and Seymour makes one.

The GFI is there for life safety which is more important than the slight possibility of a tripped GFI and a flooded basement. If the GFI trips the pump has an issue and needs to be replaced.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:44 PM   #6
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This is pretty cool. Seems a like a good option when you want to be code compliant but want proactive notification of nuisance trips. I would vote for a simplex receptacle as well to stop using the dedicated sump pump outlet for other things but that is a nit.

http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour...x#.T_HdWfXedc4
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:32 PM   #7
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Thank you for the responses everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousB View Post
This is pretty cool. Seems a like a good option when you want to be code compliant but want proactive notification of nuisance trips. I would vote for a simplex receptacle as well to stop using the dedicated sump pump outlet for other things but that is a nit.

http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour...x#.T_HdWfXedc4
That's something I went looking for last year, never found it... I guess it's either new, or I missed it.

I'm going install a single GFCI and try to buy one of those instead.

To be honest, the pumps ran all last year off extension cords plugged into other GFCI outlet and never tripped. I also re-graded my yard, so it's possible that I will never even really need to pump much anyway.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:28 PM   #8
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Thanks again for the help... I decided to just take my chances with a single GFCI. Home Depot didn't seem to have any 4" deep 4" boxes, and I didn't like the way the extenders sat.

Not shown, but above, is a 4" box on the rim joist where I transitioned from the MC to NM. That also gives me a point where I can tap into for a adding a light nearby if I needed.

While I was in the panel I added a 20A out to another j-box which will feed two new outlets in two bedrooms above... I'm taking my chances at the moment running half a dozen light bulbs and 14kBTU worth of window air conditioners on a single 15A circuit.
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:45 PM   #9
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Use the 20 amp circuit for the A/C and leave the existing circuit as is.
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Use the 20 amp circuit for the A/C and leave the existing circuit as is.
That's the plan

One outlet near window in each BR, both on the same 20A circuit. Mostly likely a TV will be plugged into that too. That takes all the pressure off the existing 15A which is used for lighting and lower power stuff like a clock radio, or phone charger.

I realized after installing the new breaker that I did not get an AFCI which I believe it required, however none of the other breakers except for Microwave and Kitchen Lights (both new circuits from kitchen remodel) are AFCI. I guess if it's ever inspected they might give me a hassle, i'd have to swap it to AFCI.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:38 AM   #11
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Looks good, you didn't have to convert to MC just for the heads up.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Looks good, you didn't have to convert to MC just for the heads up.
That brings up a good point, I think it has been discussed, but for the sake of the thread--would stapling the NM to the face of the 2x6 (like I have the MC) be sufficient to "protect" it? Which is where I think the original thought comes from.

I did the same with my water heater---I ran 10/2 NM to a j-box above the WH, then 10/2 MC down to the unit itself.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbler View Post
That brings up a good point, I think it has been discussed, but for the sake of the thread--would stapling the NM to the face of the 2x6 (like I have the MC) be sufficient to "protect" it? Which is where I think the original thought comes from.

I did the same with my water heater---I ran 10/2 NM to a j-box above the WH, then 10/2 MC down to the unit itself.
The funny thing, as a code aspect, both NM and MC need to be protected from physical damage, so really, using MC doesn't trump NM in that situation, so to answer your question, yes... NM would have been perfectly fine run on the face of the 2x6... Unless of course you are into axe wielding and think you may miss the target. Then I would protect the NM.


I live in new england, and every boiler and furnace is wired in MC or EMT, Its not code required, but I can pretty much guarantee somebody would frown and disapprove of any other wiring method, which I think is just silly that people think such crazy stuff.

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Old 07-03-2012, 05:41 PM   #14
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That would not pass code here. It would need to be sleeved.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
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That would not pass code here. It would need to be sleeved.
Why? Lol, yeah, because NM is so dangerous. just poking fun at the logic behind how they figure NM is subject to damage but MC isn't... Just blows my mind.

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