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Old 11-25-2008, 07:18 AM   #16
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Subpanel grounding


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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
like coax shields, some along water pipes etc. It is this lack of control and predictability that makes it "objectionable" and dangerous.
Reminds me of this one situation where the op was getting shocked when in the shower, or when their tvs were burning out and the coax was hot.

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Old 11-25-2008, 07:19 AM   #17
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Subpanel grounding


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Originally Posted by CAUTIOUSHOMEOWNER View Post
hello gents!
, I feel meant to have a a shop, judging by the height of the receptacles.
Like all the receptacles are four to five feet off the ground?

If yes, make sure the rest of the wiring is done correctly to code, and make sure they are not stealing power from the poco.
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Old 11-25-2008, 10:01 AM   #18
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Subpanel grounding


I have a very similar circumstance.

Subpanel on a seperate structure with no metal plumbing. This had been a photog studio for a previous owner.

The neutral & ground are seperated. Loadcenter was recently moved outdoors with a properly rated Cutler Hammer (CH4200BR).

The ground rod is quite old but directly underneath the panel. How do I get a voltmeter reading it to make sure it is still up to the task?

Expensive electronics for a home theater are now in the building which I wish to protect as much as possible.

Towards this end a CHSPULTRA has been installed in the panel & I am going to add the companion piece for coaxial cable to guard the satellite & over the air antenna line. These obviously rely on a properly functioning ground.


I am fairly certain that I am dealing with 100 amp service at this structure.

The new Loadcenter has a 200 Amp main breaker.

Last edited by nomad4137; 11-25-2008 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:05 AM   #19
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Subpanel grounding


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Originally Posted by nomad4137 View Post
I have a very similar circumstance.

Subpanel on a seperate structure with no metal plumbing. This had been a photog studio for a previous owner.

The neutral & ground are seperated. Loadcenter was recently moved outdoors with a properly rated Cutler Hammer (CH4200BR).

The ground rod is quite old but directly underneath the panel. How do I get a voltmeter reading it to make sure it is still up to the task?

Expensive electronics for a home theater are now in the building which I wish to protect as much as possible.

Towards this end a CHSPULTRA has been installed in the panel & I am going to add the companion piece for coaxial cable to guard the satellite & over the air antenna line. These obviously rely on a properly functioning ground.


I am fairly certain that I am dealing with 100 amp service at this structure.

The new Loadcenter has a 200 Amp main breaker.
For the coaxial I suggest this http://www.hyperlinktech.com/item.aspx?id=928&cmp=ALSOS

It is a very nice lightning arrestor, I have one and it works great. One time I had a lightning strike about a block down my street and it killed this device. My equipment was saved though.

You can have many ground electrodes, the required is one, but you can have two or more. I think one is plenty.

Always use compression connectors and try to use the right cable.

Try to get a surge suppressor for your ch loadcenter. Don't buy that monster junk.

Please make a new thread for your question instead of using this thread.

Last edited by rgsgww; 11-25-2008 at 08:09 PM. Reason: my quad shield addiction....
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:45 PM   #20
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Subpanel grounding


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Originally Posted by retro View Post
Like all the receptacles are four to five feet off the ground?

If yes, make sure the rest of the wiring is done correctly to code, and make sure they are not stealing power from the poco.
That is a large leap. Why would installing outlets high lead you to believe someone might be stealing power?
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:55 PM   #21
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Subpanel grounding


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Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
Always use compression connectors and try to use quad shield at all times.
There you go again with the quad shield.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...able-shielding

I should also note, for digital satellite, it really doesn't matter at all. If the signal isn't breaking up, then it's 100%... it's pretty much "all or nothing".

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Originally Posted by nomad
The ground rod is quite old but directly underneath the panel. How do I get a voltmeter reading it to make sure it is still up to the task?
You need a special ground tester. It's probably not worth buying, but you could call around and see if any electricians in your area have one and will test it for a small fee.

http://www.groundtesterstore.com/p457/aemc_4620.php

Here's one that's $1200, it's a lower cost model. :P
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:11 PM   #22
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Subpanel grounding


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Originally Posted by Gigs View Post
There you go again with the quad shield.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...able-shielding

I should also note, for digital satellite, it really doesn't matter at all. If the signal isn't breaking up, then it's 100%... it's pretty much "all or nothing".



You need a special ground tester. It's probably not worth buying, but you could call around and see if any electricians in your area have one and will test it for a small fee.

http://www.groundtesterstore.com/p457/aemc_4620.php

Here's one that's $1200, it's a lower cost model. :P
But it has four layers. It must be better, right? It is funny that complete cities are run with Tri-shield, but after it gets into the house, people(including me), feel that they must use quad shield for the best results.
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:07 PM   #23
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Subpanel grounding


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But it has four layers. It must be better, right? It is funny that complete cities are run with Tri-shield, but after it gets into the house, people(including me), feel that they must use quad shield for the best results.

It really depends on your environment, like if your next to a radio tower, etc.

The thick copper braid is better but is expensive. I use some quad, I have noticed a difference in some things. I really have to stop with the quad though
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:18 PM   #24
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Subpanel grounding


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Originally Posted by jerryh3 View Post
But it has four layers. It must be better, right? It is funny that complete cities are run with Tri-shield, but after it gets into the house, people(including me), feel that they must use quad shield for the best results.
Inside a home you have a lot more electrical wiring running near the coax cable. There's usually a good distance between the coax cable and any power lines prior to it entering your house, so the cable outside isn't that big of a deal. In my neighborhood, everything is all underground and the last time they had the ground tore up replacing the main lines to the transformers on our street I could see the coax was far enough away for it to not matter.
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:15 AM   #25
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Subpanel grounding


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Inside a home you have a lot more electrical wiring running near the coax cable. There's usually a good distance between the coax cable and any power lines prior to it entering your house, so the cable outside isn't that big of a deal. In my neighborhood, everything is all underground and the last time they had the ground tore up replacing the main lines to the transformers on our street I could see the coax was far enough away for it to not matter.

I have aerial lines except for phone. And this neighborhood has A LOT of old trees...every year we get 2-4 power outages. Power lines arcing look pretty impressive...have you ever seen a gfci reset itself?
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:04 PM   #26
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Subpanel grounding


Well, I looked and I do have 2 hots a neutral and a ground, if subpanel in detached building is only 6 feet away from main house AND Servicepanel, do I still need a ground rod at detached building ???. I will be able to bond sub at service panel with existing bare copper conductor between panels.

here is a silly question???? I bought a "universal"ground buss bar for the sub at HD, the screws that come with it do not turn into the predrilled holes of the Westinghouse enclosure, it calls for a GB6C ground buss which I can't find because(cutler hammer bought out WG or so I am told), the threads strip and screws dont go in!!!!!!I tried other sizes of screws from the local hardware store. I am trying to avoid drilling and tapping, can I use sheet metal screws that make their on thread????

Thanks again for all your guidance

Last edited by CAUTIOUSHOMEOWNER; 12-02-2008 at 02:21 PM. Reason: DUPLICATE
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #27
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Subpanel grounding


Well, I looked and I do have 2 hots a neutral and a ground, if subpanel in detached building is only 6 feet away from main house AND Servicepanel, do I still need a ground rod at detached building ???. I will be able to bond sub at service panel with existing bare copper conductor between panels.

here is a silly question???? I bought a "universal"ground buss bar for the sub at HD, the screws that come with it do not turn into the predrilled holes of the Westinghouse enclosure, it calls for a GB6C ground buss which I can't find because(cutler hammer bought out WG or so I am told), the threads strip and screws dont go in!!!!!!I tried other sizes of screws from the local hardware store. I am trying to avoid drilling and tapping, can I use sheet metal screws that make their on thread????

Thanks again for all your guidance

Last edited by CAUTIOUSHOMEOWNER; 12-02-2008 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:58 PM   #28
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Subpanel grounding


Yes you need ground rods, I would tap it, using sheet metal screws are not conforming to the ul,csa, etc. rating, thus violating the code.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:35 PM   #29
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Subpanel grounding


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Yes you need ground rods, I would tap it, using sheet metal screws are not conforming to the ul,csa, etc. rating, thus violating the code.
Are you kidding? There's no such thing as a UL rated sheet metal screw.

EDIT- I think I misread what you were saying. Hmmm. Anyway I think the code forbids sheet metal screws for grounding regardless of listing.

Last edited by Gigs; 12-02-2008 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:55 PM   #30
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Subpanel grounding


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Are you kidding? There's no such thing as a UL rated sheet metal screw.

EDIT- I think I misread what you were saying. Hmmm. Anyway I think the code forbids sheet metal screws for grounding regardless of listing.
I meant the bar.

I don't think the sheet metal screw would do well under fault current.

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