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-   -   Subpanel in garage with emt conduit (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/subpanel-garage-emt-conduit-169506/)

turbota79 01-18-2013 11:43 PM

Subpanel in garage with emt conduit
 
I am new to this forum and found alot of useful information by using the search on this website.

I bought a new single home house with an attached garage in Ontario Canada 2 years ago. I just installed a subpanel in my garage to run an air compressor and have more electrical outlets available. The subpanel is being supplied by a 60 amp, 220v breaker from the main (which is approx 10' away in the basement).
In the subpanel I have a 30 amp 220 and a 20 amp 110.
I am using 1/2" and 3/4"emt conduit (I bought pipe benders) because my garage is drywalled and insulated.
I bought individual stranded wires spool of #10 and #12:
-220v 30 amp #10 - Red (hot), Black (hot) and Green (ground)
-110v 20 amp #12 - Black (hot), White (neutral) and Green (ground)

I have all conduit pipe installed and I am about to pull the wires, here are my questions:
-Do I have to pull 2 ground wires, 1 for the 110 and the other the 220 or can I only pull 1 ground wire but use it for both breakers?
-Should I pull a neutral wire for the 220? Is there any 220 tools that require a neutral wires? (welder?)
-Since I am using stranded wires must I use crushable end terminal to connect to the outlets?

I have 4 outlets of 110 and 1 outlet of 220. I have ~40' of conduit on the wall and ceiling. I want everything to be to code.
Please let me know if more information is needed.

Thanks

Glennsparky 01-19-2013 12:10 AM

-Do I have to pull 2 ground wires, 1 for the 110 and the other the 220 or can I only pull 1 ground wire but use it for both breakers?
One ground, sized to the largest circuit, can cover all circuits in a conduit.
-Should I pull a neutral wire for the 220? Is there any 220 tools that require a neutral wires? (welder?)
DK, I doubt it.
-Since I am using stranded wires must I use crushable end terminal to connect to the outlets?
No. All outlets are listed for solid and stranded. There are a few tricks to make stranded go neatly around a screw. My favorite is to buy outlets where the screw snugs up a capture plate. The stripped wire end goes straight into a hole, not around the screw. The screw and plate makes the connection tight.

rrolleston 01-19-2013 03:05 AM

Your sub panel should be fed with four wires two hot neutral and ground. The conduit can be considered ground if its connected secure enough with no breaks between panels.

chitownken 01-19-2013 09:44 AM

You might want to pull a neutral to your 240V outlet. My shaper runs on 240V, but has a 120V light attached. Would not work without the neutral

turbota79 01-19-2013 12:22 PM

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. I will pull a neutral for my 220v for future tool/equipment (for the fact they might have a 110v componant). Now a new question: Do I have to pull 2 neutral wires or use simply use 1 for both? (like the ground wire question).

I purchased the "Electrical Code Simplified" but it's doesn't talk about conduit, where could I find more information on rules?

Thanks

rrolleston 01-19-2013 12:24 PM

Just two hots a one neutral and one ground is what you need.

darren 01-19-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbota79 (Post 1097188)
Thanks for the quick replies everyone. I will pull a neutral for my 220v for future tool/equipment (for the fact they might have a 110v componant). Now a new question: Do I have to pull 2 neutral wires or use simply use 1 for both? (like the ground wire question).

Thanks

You will need a neutral for the 120V plugs and a neutral for the 240V load.

rrolleston 01-19-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbota79 (Post 1097188)
Thanks for the quick replies everyone. I will pull a neutral for my 220v for future tool/equipment (for the fact they might have a 110v componant). Now a new question: Do I have to pull 2 neutral wires or use simply use 1 for both? (like the ground wire question).

I purchased the "Electrical Code Simplified" but it's doesn't talk about conduit, where could I find more information on rules?

Thanks

Are you talking about running two neutrals to your sub panel? If you are there would never be any reason to run two neutrals or grounds to a sub panel.

Even if you had to that would be a really tight fit for 5 10 gauge wires in a 1/2 EMT

turbota79 01-19-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrolleston (Post 1097198)
Are you talking about running two neutrals to your sub panel? If you are there would never be any reason to run two neutrals or grounds to a sub panel.

Even if you had to that would be a really tight fit for 5 10 gauge wires in a 1/2 EMT

From my main to the subpanel I have 4 wires (#6 - red, black, white and green approx 10' away). What I was not sure was from my subpanel breakers to the outlets, since both the 110 and the 220 circuits use the same ground and neutral. Now I will pull 1 ground (green #10) and 2 neutral (white #10, #12), does anybody if that follow code here in Ontario, Canada?

Thanks,

rrolleston 01-19-2013 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbota79 (Post 1097242)
From my main to the subpanel I have 4 wires (#6 - red, black, white and green approx 10' away). What I was not sure was from my subpanel breakers to the outlets, since both the 110 and the 220 circuits use the same ground and neutral. Now I will pull 1 ground (green #10) and 2 neutral (white #10, #12), does anybody if that follow code here in Ontario, Canada?

Thanks,

I would not put my 240v circuits in the same conduit as the 120v circuits

darren 01-19-2013 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrolleston (Post 1097247)
I would not put my 240v circuits in the same conduit as the 120v circuits

Why not? You do realize a 240V circuit is just two 120V circuits.

All you need in your pipe is two #12 for the plug and 3#10 for your 240V load.

You can put 5 #10(rw90) into a 1/2" so you should have no problem with your pipe size.

If you want to run a ground then you would need a #12, I personally would not run a seperate ground in the pipe.

rrolleston 01-19-2013 03:34 PM

You can and it will work fine. I just like to keep my circuits separate.

darren 01-19-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrolleston (Post 1097271)
You can and it will work fine. I just like to keep my circuits separate.

Wow if I did that my boss would hang me out to dry.

turbota79 03-20-2013 10:08 PM

Update - I had my electrical work inspected and it passed. Here what's was done (thanks for all the input from this forum):
-from my main panel, a romex wire 6# to a terminal block (inside a box) to 4 individual 6# wires (red, black, white and green) that goes into a 1" conduit to the sub panel. One of the terminal block was made specially for ground. I found out you could run the romex wire inside the conduit but you had to "derate" it, true or not true? I simply decided to play it safe.
-220V 30amp, I ran 4 wires 10# (red, black, white and green). I decided to run the neutral for future use (industrial equipment lathe/milling machine if they would've a 110V component)
-110V 20amp, I ran 2 wires 12# (black and white). For the ground wire I used the same one as the 220 circuit. Some said you don't need a ground since it's in a conduit, here again I decided to play it safe. It was difficult to curl 10# ground wires around the terminal though.


I ran both circuits wires in the same conduit. I split the 110V to have more outlets on the other walls which was no problem. The inspection took almost 20 mins, the inspector verified all the plugs, sub panel etc. He asked where I worked because the conduit installation was well done he said, I told him I did my research on youtube and the internet.


The total cost of my sub panel project ~700$ (permits, panel, breakers, conduit, wires, tools, outlets etc...)


So again thanks for all the info everyone and if anyone has any questions on my set up (I will try to post some pics).


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