Subpanel Feed

Missouri Bound · 08-16-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan50hrl

Am i missing something???

Nope. If you were using conduit to attach the sub panel then you could have just run the two circuits through that conduit rather than re-running them. That's why I asked. You are good to go with your plan.

andrew79 · 08-17-2012, 07:57 AM

We've never been allowed to have feeders and branch in the same conduit. Especially true when fed from two sources

ryan50hrl · 08-22-2012, 05:07 PM

Anybody see anything wrong with the feeder connections?

andrew79 · 08-22-2012, 05:14 PM

not that i can tell right off. I like to leave a bit of a curl in the wire incase it fails down the road to allow for restripping and attaching. The white branch circuits shouldn't be bent that tight, your creating a hot spot in the wire and weakening it but unless it's loaded down pretty good it should be fine. I'm not sure if the nec has a bend radius rule for wire like we do so i'll wait for someone more versed to comment on that.

i've seen worse installs from licensed guys so don't take the critisism to heart. you did well especially if it's your first time doing one.

on a side note what are the rules for backing needed for a panel/subpanel in the U.S.? do you need drywall or fire rated plywood or anything like that?

ryan50hrl · 08-22-2012, 05:17 PM

I left three or 4 inches extra up in the joists in case I ever needed to pull it down further. Damn and here I thought I made the white branch circuits all look Nice and neat what radius do you usually bend them to?

andrew79 · 08-22-2012, 05:31 PM

from what i could find on google the nec doesn't have a rule for bending radius for #10 wire and under. Don't take this a law, i'm no nec expert.

what happens is though is that by bending it that tight you've created a weaker spot in the metal, this can become a hotspot. Odds are extremely low that anything would ever happen to it as it's only been bent once. If it's not against code to do i would just leave it the way it is

Missouri Bound · 08-22-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79

We've never been allowed to have feeders and branch in the same conduit. Especially true when fed from two sources

The NEC allows both feeders and circuits to share a common conduit, but not a service with other circuits. Is it different in Canada?

stickboy1375 · 08-22-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79

We've never been allowed to have feeders and branch in the same conduit. Especially true when fed from two sources

WHY not?

andrew79 · 08-22-2012, 08:46 PM

the reasoning is that you could kill a panel to work on something and still have live wires in the conduit because it's fed from a different source.

the idea with the feeders is that if you run them in the same conduit then you would have to kill the whole panel to do any work on that conduit.

In my line of work we're constantly adding things into pipes, pretty much everything is either run in slab or surface emt so it just makes it easier to keep it all seperate. Most jobs in the last few years have been spec'd for no 1/2" pipe intalled period. Min 3/4". Mind you that's a customers choice and not code.

Missouri Bound · 08-22-2012, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79

the reasoning is that you could kill a panel to work on something and still have live wires in the conduit because it's fed from a different source.

I understand the reasoning....but it IS allowed and you choose not to do it. Just clarifying your statement.

stickboy1375 · 08-22-2012, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79

the reasoning is that you could kill a panel to work on something and still have live wires in the conduit because it's fed from a different source.

the idea with the feeders is that if you run them in the same conduit then you would have to kill the whole panel to do any work on that conduit.

In my line of work we're constantly adding things into pipes, pretty much everything is either run in slab or surface emt so it just makes it easier to keep it all seperate. Most jobs in the last few years have been spec'd for no 1/2" pipe intalled period. Min 3/4". Mind you that's a customers choice and not code.

So whats the difference if you have 9 ckts in a conduit or a feeder and one circuit? most likely you are still going to piss someone off.

and that's why you schedule down time if its an issue, certainly not a code issue... but a design issue.

stickboy1375 · 08-22-2012, 08:55 PM

One of my biggest pet peeves is suggesting something above and beyond code because of ones opinion.... lets keep it basic folks... let the OP's choose how to spend their money.

andrew79 · 08-22-2012, 09:02 PM

(2) No raceway or compartment of a multiple-channel raceway shall contain conductors that are connected
to different power or distribution transformers or other different sources of voltage, except where the
conductors
(a) are separated by the metal armour or metal sheath of cable assemblies of the types listed in Table 19;
(b) are separated by a barrier of sheet steel not less that 1.34 mm (No. 16 MSG) thick or a flameretardant
non-metallic insulating material not less than 1.5 mm in thickness; or
(c) are used for the supply and/or control of remote devices, are insulated for at least the same voltage
as that of the circuit having the highest voltage, and none of the conductors of the circuits of lower
voltages is directly connected to a lighting branch circuit.

i know there's an argument to be made that a sub panel is fed from the same voltage source but i've seen the inspector call us on it so i think they interpret it as a separate panel is considered a different source of voltage. I'm not totally on crack guys

i do know a little bit of my own code, just a little though

Stubbie · 08-22-2012, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan50hrl

I left three or 4 inches extra up in the joists in case I ever needed to pull it down further. Damn and here I thought I made the white branch circuits all look Nice and neat what radius do you usually bend them to?

It looks fine to me .......

I also use the nice bends on the conductors to both the breakers and neutral/ground bars. There are a few things I would have done differently but I'm not going to beat you up over them as they are not code violations. Nice job.

stickboy1375 · 08-22-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubie

It looks fine to me .......

I also use the nice bends on the conductors to both the breakers and neutral/ground bars. There are a few things I would have done differently but I'm not going to beat you up over them as they are not code violations. Nice job.

I concur... looks like an average install to me... and there is nothing wrong with average...