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Old 03-30-2011, 08:42 AM   #1
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


I have a 200 amp main that is full. Next to the main I have a transfer box for generator power. From this transfer box it runs out side to my pole barn. This is where I eventually will run the generator set to feed that transfer box. In addition, I ran another line out of the main (separate conduit) to the pole barn for power to the building. All that said, here is my question. I now want to run power to the other side of my basement for a wood working area. In stead of putting another sub panel for that area, I'm thinking of using one of the breakers within the transfer box to feed the wood working area. Basically, a sub feed from a sub feed. The reason? The transfer switch is in the pathway that I want to feed my basement power. It would be simple to come out of transfer box. Does this make sense? The pole barn is wired and hot but that's it. Transfer switch or another sub panel would be my next project.

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Old 03-30-2011, 11:26 AM   #2
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


That's tough to understand...
Anyway you could post a pic?

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Old 03-30-2011, 11:50 AM   #3
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


I think this article at the bottom applies to the extra conduit run from the pole barn to the transfer switch. If you already have one supply to the barn, you cannot add another. I see no issue with having your workshop on your emergency system. Seems like a waste of emergency power to me. But it is okay to do.

Have you considered trying to utilize the main panel and not touch the ATS? The ATS can used as a raceway space permitting. If your panel can accept one of these breakers it will free up two spaces. 2 of them will free up 4 spaces and so on. Heres a picture of a tandem circuit breaker. One slot, two circuits.
Note: Check panel listing to be certain tandems are allowed and where they can be placed.



II. More Than One Building or Other Structure
225.30 Number of Supplies. Where more than one building
or other structure is on the same property and under
single management, each additional building or other structure
that is served by a branch circuit or feeder on the load
side of the service disconnecting means shall be supplied
by only one feeder or branch circuit unless permitted in
225.30(A) through (E). For the purpose of this section, a
multiwire branch circuit shall be considered a single circuit.
(A) Special Conditions. Additional feeders or branch circuits
shall be permitted to supply the following:
(1) Fire pumps
(2) Emergency systems
(3) Legally required standby systems
(4) Optional standby systems
(5) Parallel power production systems
(6) Systems designed for connection to multiple sources of
supply for the purpose of enhanced reliability
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Subpanel box/transfer switch-2-pole-vs-tandem.jpg  
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:23 PM   #4
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


There are two runs of 1 1/4 conduit running to my pole barn. One supplies power to the barn. The other is where my generator is located and where I would plug in. From there it would go to the transfer switch. I don't think this falls under the two supplies to the same structure rule. These are both isolated from each other. I could have just as well put the generator in the garage, but I chose the pole barn because the generator is a PTO and that's where my tractor is that would run it.
I like the idea of the piggy back breakers. That would free up some breaker room. I'll look into it.
I'm not trying to run the basement work area on generator power, but during a power outage, you are right. It would be there. During normal operation, the breakers would be fed from the main 200 amp panel. This would open several more breaker areas for me.
I guess the question really is... can a sub panel be run from another sub panel and can the transfer switch be considered a sub panel?

Thanks

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:17 PM   #5
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


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Originally Posted by whejdak View Post
There are two runs of 1 1/4 conduit running to my pole barn. One supplies power to the barn. The other is where my generator is located and where I would plug in. From there it would go to the transfer switch. I don't think this falls under the two supplies to the same structure rule
actually it does apply. You should have used the feed to the barn to back feed the main. The way you have it is a violation.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:16 PM   #6
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


Thanks for the input. But, I believe that I'm still OK under (A) Special Conditions. Additional feeders or branch circuits
shall be permitted to supply the following:
(4) Optional standby systems.


Anyway, my original question is what I'm seeking an answer to. Assuming that the transfer switch is a sub panel can I then feed my work area in the basement from a breaker inside the transfer switch.

Thanks

Bill
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:37 PM   #7
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


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actually it does apply. You should have used the feed to the barn to back feed the main. The way you have it is a violation.
When you have the generator in the barn (or shed) and the utility service entrance in the main house, you cannot have a single set of wires between the buildings to provide utility power to the barn and also provide generator power to the house.

There needs to be a dedicated run from the generator in the barn to the transfer switch in the house. The second run between the two buildings feeds power including generator power to everything else in the barn.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 03-30-2011 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:42 PM   #8
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


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Originally Posted by Saturday Cowboy View Post
actually it does apply. You should have used the feed to the barn to back feed the main. The way you have it is a violation.
When you have the generator in the barn (or shed) and the utility service entrance in the main house, you cannot have a single set of wires between the buildings to provide utility power to the barn and also provide generator power to the house.

There needs to be a dedicated run from the generator to the transfer switch in the house. The second run between the two buildings is fed by the main panel or a subpanel in the house and delivers power including generator power to everything else in the barn.
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:14 AM   #9
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


Thanks, this is exactly what I have. Two separate runs in two separate 1/1/4 PVC pipes. No connection between.
Thanks

Bill
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:35 AM   #10
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


I am glad you were paying attention. Thats why I attached the article. You are correct since your generator is an exception. I would still run it by the inspector to be sure. Generators, interlocks and ATS are some things they really want to make sure are installed correctly.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:38 AM   #11
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Subpanel box/transfer switch


Many thanks

Bill

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