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Old 09-10-2011, 11:52 AM   #16
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sub panel wiring


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Originally Posted by grapeman View Post
Unfortunately the picture I took earlier is to big in file size and I cant attach it. I'm convinced I do need a hold-down though for the 100 amp breaker in the sub-panel to do it right.
Open the picture with Paint and under Image you will find Stretch/Skew. Change both dimensions to 50% and save. Also, change your camera resolution to 2 meg.

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Old 09-10-2011, 12:18 PM   #17
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JIm,

I'm probably not being clear enough on this:

My thought is to attach the ground wire from the feeder to one of the two neutral bus's (not to the panel), the one which has all the ground wires attached to it already from the smaller wires feeding the various outlets in the shed (the bus serving as neutral has the white neutral wires already attached to it, and the feeder neutral I will attach to this bus). To this neutral bus that I plan on using as the ground bus, I will also attach the wire that goes to the grounding rod outside. My main question is since this bus I'm using as ground does not contact the metal panel box in any way, would simply running a wire from this bus to a screw that mounts the panel suffice in grounding it, sort of serving as a grounding screw?
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:24 PM   #18
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Thanks A7 for the file size reduction tip: here's the pic....
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sub panel wiring-panel-box.jpg  
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:24 PM   #19
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sub panel wiring


If this panel is listed as suitable for service equipment and came with a bonding screw, it will have a place to put it so it can screw into the panel and bond one of the grnd/neutral bars, usually near the top or bottom of the bar. Hopefully it will be under the right hand bar. Remove the set screws on the right hand bar and look for its position. May even be under a screw you have a ground wire on now. If it is, move the wire to a different set-screw.

No, using the screw that mounts the panel is not acceptable. You could bolt on a lug to the side or back of the panel though.
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:49 PM   #20
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I'm getting ready to run 6/3 wire from my main panel out to a shed with a sub panel that was already installed but not wired when I bought the place. This sub panel, made by Siemens circa 1995, has no lugs on the hot bus's to hook the hot wires to. It seems like all panels I've seen pictured on you tube videos and other places on the internet have lugs joined to these hot bus bars. Instead, there is a 100 amp circuit breaker at the top of the bus bar with several 15 and 20 amp bars below it. Presumably I hook the wires into this 100 amp circuit breaker and it electrifies the whole bar? Explaining this to an employee at Home Depot who I was told was a master electrician said this should work, though he had never seen a panel like that. Has anybody out there seen this configuration and can confirm it works like that? I'm putting a 60 amp breaker in at the main panel to carry this current on the 6/3 wire, is it OK to use the 100 amp breaker the subpanel came with, or do I need to downsize it to 60 amps at the sub panel as well? And one last question, I know the neutral bus and ground bus are to be separated... I removed the bonding bar, but the green bonding screw that was sitting at the bottom of the panel unscrewed doesn't seem to fit anywhere so can I tuck a piece of copper wire from the grounding bus under a screw that mounts the panel to the wall to ground it (I also will be running a wire from the grounding bus down to a ground rod)? Thanks for any answers you can give.
Dose the code state that we have to install a separate ground rod for sub panels?
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:07 PM   #21
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Dose the code state that we have to install a separate ground rod for sub panels?
If it is in a detached structure, yes. In the same structure as the service panel, no.
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:33 PM   #22
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As hard as it is to believe, I for the life of me cant find where this bonding screw goes. I like your idea SD515 of bolting a lug to the side and attaching to that. I will look one last time under some of those existing set screws to see if it can go there but I'm pretty sure it wont (those set screws are bigger diameter then the bonding screw). Thanks everyone for all your help.
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:45 PM   #23
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If it is in a detached structure, yes. In the same structure as the service panel, no.
So in that situation, do we still have to bond it back to the main?
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:58 PM   #24
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Whether it’s an attached or detached structure, a sub-panel gets a ground wire from the main. So yes, the sub-panel gets bonded to the main panel.
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:20 PM   #25
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sub panel wiring


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As hard as it is to believe, I for the life of me cant find where this bonding screw goes. I like your idea SD515 of bolting a lug to the side and attaching to that. I will look one last time under some of those existing set screws to see if it can go there but I'm pretty sure it wont (those set screws are bigger diameter then the bonding screw). Thanks everyone for all your help.

the screw doesnt thread into the bar, it threads into the actual enclosure, it should go all the way through the bar
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:48 PM   #26
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You should be able to check the panel label to see where the screw goes.

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