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Old 01-24-2012, 09:03 PM   #16
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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Only you can answer this. Where else could they have put it? How about you lose the tray ceiling? Or sacrifice 5" of the tray to make that panel "legal"?

My only point was that we are talking about a measly triangle less than 5x6x5 inches, right at the floor. If this were a complete wall that was 5" too close I might not be so cavalier.
Actually in many ways a wall would be safer. With just the small area near the floor you're much more likely to back into it and fall onto it and possibly through the ceiling!

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Old 01-24-2012, 09:07 PM   #17
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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Only you can answer this. Where else could they have put it?
How about you lose the tray ceiling? Or sacrifice 5" of the tray to make that panel "legal"?
I get what you're saying, but they had plenty of other options. I could lose the tray ceiling, or sacrifice 5" of the tray... but we designed the house to have a certain size and style of tray ceiling.

I choose not to sacrifice what we wanted because they were too lazy to follow code.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:07 PM   #18
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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Actually in many ways a wall would be safer. With just the small area near the floor you're much more likely to back into it and fall onto it and possibly through the ceiling!
Point taken, but IMO if you fall through because it is 32" instead of 36" then you almost deserve it.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:10 PM   #19
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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I choose not to sacrifice what we wanted because they were too lazy to follow code.
So them putting the panel there was lazy? In what way?

Seriously. I have no idea what the rest of the place is like. From the looks of the other pics it is a pretty nice house. Usually in cases like this folks are pretty stingy about giving up space and making concessions for insignificant things like breaker panels.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:34 PM   #20
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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So them putting the panel there was lazy? In what way?

Seriously. I have no idea what the rest of the place is like. From the looks of the other pics it is a pretty nice house. Usually in cases like this folks are pretty stingy about giving up space and making concessions for insignificant things like breaker panels.
It is a nice house, if you can get past:
  • HVAC is a complete disaster. Horrendous balancing. Big problems with pressurization, etc...
  • The roof has speed bumps that make it look like a parking lot (builder has already said they believe this will be a total re-roof. They are waiting a few more weeks for the weather to get warmer so they can investigate further).
  • The bathroom vent fans actually blow air back into the bathroom
  • The hardwood floor needs to be completely stripped down and refinished as the hardwood "professional" didn't really wipe things down prior to poly being applied and there is tons of sawdust, grit, and "stuff" trapped beneath the poly. The stain was also applied incredibly unevenly. Builder has already agreed this is a total re-do.
  • The spindles on the stairs and cat-walk are not to code (some have nearly 6 inches of space). Having a little one this is a safety issue.
  • Downspout drains were tied into foundation drains
  • Cabinets that are cracked or gouged and need to be replaced
  • A fireplace that pours in cold air from the outside
Not to mention countless other things. I could go on and on. All of these items were on the punch list. Those items were supposed to be fixed in 15 days as per the contract. We are approaching day 90.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:36 PM   #21
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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Not to mention countless other things. I could go on and on. All of these items were on the punch list. Those items were supposed to be fixed in 15 days as per the contract. We are approaching day 90.
I sympathize with dealing with a hack builder, I really do. But 15 days to fix all that is completely unrealistic.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:39 PM   #22
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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So them putting the panel there was lazy? In what way?
So either they knew what the code was and decided to ignore it, or they didn't know what the code was. Take your pick.

Hey - maybe they think that having a GFCI outlet near a bathroom sink is not really needed as well. So what codes can an electrician make their own decisions on?

Can an electrician pick and choose what codes they follow, and to what extent they follow it?
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:43 PM   #23
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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So either they knew what the code was and decided to ignore it, or they didn't know what the code was. Take your pick.

Hey - maybe they think that having a GFCI outlet near a bathroom sink is not really needed as well. So what codes can an electrician make their own decisions on?

Can an electrician pick and choose what codes they follow, and to what extent they follow it?
OK, now you are just being over dramatic.
Are you seriously equating a 5" triangle obstruction to omitting GFIs in a bath?

I get that you're frustrated, but this panel issue is NOT much of an issue. If you need to use it to stick it to the builder then go right ahead. It IS a technical violation. Almost certainly one I would have not have had a problem with though, and I am a stickler for the code.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:44 PM   #24
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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I sympathize with dealing with a hack builder, I really do. But 15 days to fix all that is completely unrealistic.
So they shouldn't write the contract that states that.

And MANY of those issues were clearly communicated WELL in advance of the final walk-through. Well in advance. They just choose to ignore many of them.

They would do just enough to make it look like they are making an effort to "make things right". That made it very difficult for us to walk away fro the contract. Their response would have been, "but your honor, we have been slowly addressing these issues"...

It has been a game of "catch me if you can". In my opinion they have tried to get away with as much as they could. If we caught them on something, they would then fight us about it, and do the least amount possible to try and "fix" it.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:48 PM   #25
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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So they shouldn't write the contract that states that.
Not smart on their part.



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And MANY of those issues were clearly communicated WELL in advance of the final walk-through. Well in advance. They just choose to ignore many of them.

They would do just enough to make it look like they are making an effort to "make things right". That made it very difficult for us to walk away fro the contract. Their response would have been, "but your honor, we have been slowly addressing these issues"...

It has been a game of "catch me if you can". In my opinion they have tried to get away with as much as they could. If we caught them on something, they would then fight us about it, and do the least amount possible to try and "fix" it.
Sounds like a bunch of hacks that give the rest of us "contractors" a bad name.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:53 PM   #26
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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OK, now you are just being over dramatic.
Are you seriously equating a 5" triangle obstruction to omitting GFIs in a bath?

I get that you're frustrated, but this panel issue is NOT much of an issue. If you need to use it to stick it to the builder then go right ahead. It IS a technical violation. Almost certainly one I would have not have had a problem with though, and I am a stickler for the code.
yep you're right. I probably am being a bit dramatic. But we just moved across the country and built the house of our dreams in a wonderful area. And now it has turned into one giant pile of ...

And the builder's attorney called us last week to see if we were open to being bought out. That speaks volumes.

Needless to say - we are a bit upset. This is what one of our foundation walls looked like until we pointed it out and MADE them fix it. It sat like this for a week and nobody said anything about it. Their construction manager said that "I just want the Cadillac of everything". Then he had the stones to use the foundation wall problem as an example of me wanting the "Cadillac" of everything.

I was furious with this guy. Pardon me for wanting a foundation wall that doesn't look a 1st grader built it out of lego's.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:04 AM   #27
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


I have a great idea for the OP. Worry about all the other REAL issues and give this panel placement a break.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:35 PM   #28
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


I would also work on the safety issues first. And if that panel really bugs you after everything else is fixed maybe you could make the floor higher where the panel is like a platform A little framing and a 4'x4' sheet 3/4" plywood would work.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:12 PM   #29
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


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I have a great idea for the OP. Worry about all the other REAL issues and give this panel placement a break.
Yep - I get that.

It's more about having as much "evidence" as possible as it appears we may be heading down a legal road. The more things I can show they have done wrong, the more it helps my case.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:49 PM   #30
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Sub Panel location - not to code?


Also to blame is the AHJ approving it to get a certificate of occupancy after inspection.

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