Sub Panel Grounding - Electrical - Page 2 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2007, 07:05 PM   #16
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Sub panel grounding


Besides the unprotected romex, How do you get the cover on the furnace, or for that matter the J.B. when the J.B. cover is attached to the screw holes of the furnace cover... Am I looking at that right???

Advertisement

Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 07:19 PM   #17
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,220
Rewards Points: 2,410
Default

Sub panel grounding


We are required to bond metal gas pipes, however in the Usa we do not in a residential dwelling run a bonding jumper to the gas pipe as a rule... as this makes it a grounding electrode like the water pipe. The fuel and gas code and the utilities don't allow it. The NEC considers the bonding requirement satisfied by the equipment bonding conductor ran with the circuit serving the appliance. There is something that may be preventing that bond to the egc, do you see it?
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:12 PM   #18
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Sub panel grounding


Are you talking about what looks like teflon tape or pipe dope??? If so, neither would prevent the bond...In my opinion.
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:20 PM   #19
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,220
Rewards Points: 2,410
Default

Sub panel grounding


Yes, when I was attending a seminar on bonding at the IBEW classrooms across town a few years back they proved without a doubt that excessive use of teflon tape on the pipe threads will break the continuity to the metal of the regulator it is threaded into.

I will agree that a correct application will not be an issue.

I'm glad you have an opinion on the tape shows your thinking...
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:24 PM   #20
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Sub panel grounding


Oh... I'm always thinking, Stub. I guess excessive use would prevent the bond... typical around here is pipe dope. Those guys torque the snot out of those pipes! I would think threads cut five minutes before and a couple pipe wrenches would cut thru anything!!! But I can see where excessive tape would prevent it.
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:37 PM   #21
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,220
Rewards Points: 2,410
Default

Sub panel grounding


Until I saw it with my own eyes I didn't believe it to be possible either. I was one who held up a hand when asked if the continuity would not be broken. Had to eat a little crow. Knowing the instructor I thought he was fooling with us.....

For your knowledge here is the copied section of NFPA 54 and the fuel and gas codes mirror it.

Extracted text from NFPA 54
6.13 Electrical Bonding and Grounding.
6.13.1 Each aboveground portion of a gas piping system that is likely to become energized shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault current path. Gas piping shall be considered to be bonded when it is connected to gas utilization equipment that is connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the circuit supplying that equipment.
6.13.2 Gas piping shall not be used as a grounding conductor or electrode.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:41 PM   #22
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,220
Rewards Points: 2,410
Default

Sub panel grounding


One other thing when the connection is made with gas tite flexible gas line you have to run a jumper from the metal of the furnace to where the flex connects to the gas pipe. You size it according to 250.122. They are having serious issues with loss of bond using that stuff.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:51 PM   #23
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Sub panel grounding


We are blessedly kept from seeing much of the flex... I've never had to deal with it. It seems to be a combo of tradition and the fact that the local inspectors have made it known they don't much like it. Thanks for the info...Even though I knew the rule, I'll save the reference the next time some cubbie wants to argue the point.

Ya reckon we scared Honkster off???
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:03 PM   #24
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,220
Rewards Points: 2,410
Default

Sub panel grounding


I'm not sure what happened to honkster but I doubt you scared her off as I was the one that brought up issues she may not have wanted to hear. I'd like to know how she came out but will have to wait to see if she comes back. I get a little worried when we start having beginners fool with pools and hot tubs just gives me that uneasy feeling but better we give her advice than have her go it alone.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:10 PM   #25
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Sub panel grounding


Heck, Stubbie, I do this for fun, as well as "service work. Kind of like "pro bono" ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS shoot me down when I goof. I don't know everything or even much and I learn every day at work, and sites like these. My feelings can't be hurt...This is the internet . Plus I love the debate.
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 02:31 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 106
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Sub panel grounding


Piedmont asked the question about bounding. I would have asked the same question, but I didn't want to let you guys know that I didn't know what you were talking about. I appreciate the replies and the explanation was very detailed, but I still had trouble understanding the term and so I looked it up. I think this explains it in simpler terms. "The term 'bonded' or 'bonding' means connecting together two or more points of non-current-carrying parts (conduit, boxes, etc.), often with bare, uninsulated wires, so that all such parts become connected together, and finally to the ground".
sluggermike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 04:35 PM   #27
Electrician philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Sub panel grounding


Never be scared to admit you don't know what we are talking about. As I mentioned earlier, many pro's don't know either.
Andy in ATL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 02:23 AM   #28
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Sub panel grounding


Andy :

I know you beat me on this one but let me step in for a min maybe i can change the " chess " around for a min.

OT for a min Stubbie did provide a photo to see the code volations and i can see one for sure is junction box location, secondally thing is the profated strap is not a approved type of bonding strap. third but it may shake a little here but the SCCT felx pipe you need a bonding jumper to bypass it.

IIRC i think that either N.C. or other area is getting strict with the SCCT now.

for pipe thread tape or thread dope stuff if used excess it can actally prevent bonding it properly almost like dielectric union fitting.

Merci, Marc

Advertisement

frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This doesnt seem right. JoulesWinfield Electrical 27 07-26-2009 08:40 PM
NEC Question Jafsvcs Electrical 1 06-13-2007 06:45 PM
advice on installing equipment grounding bar in main panel pacifier1er Electrical 5 05-29-2007 06:55 PM
grounding for sub panel aarons600rr Electrical 3 04-17-2007 09:04 PM
Grounding Sub Panel jmccue Electrical 2 02-08-2007 12:24 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts