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Old 07-05-2008, 08:01 AM   #1
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


Howdy. I am converting my garage into a mudroom.It is attached to the house,but presently does not open to the house. It will eventually.An easy and inexpensive way for me to provide power for a new sub is to reroute the no longer in use electric dryer circuit. This consists of a 30 amp DP breaker in the main panel and 10/3 romex with ground. I would like to take this to a new 4 breaker sub in the garage. One GFI circuit would be for 4 or 6 outlets,including an outdoor one that powers a small pump for our garden pond. One circuit would be for lighting,nothing extravagant. One circuit would be for a small refrigerator,or perhaps(yum) a kegerator.The last circuit would be for the future,if we decide to move the washer and gas dryer into this area.I have the washer and dryer on one circuit now and have had for 20 years,never a problem.I would probably make all circuits 20 amp,maybe 15 amp for the lighting. Comments and advice please?

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Old 07-05-2008, 10:46 AM   #2
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


I have the washer and dryer on one circuit now and have had for 20 years,never a problem.I would probably make all circuits 20 amp,maybe 15 amp for the lighting. Comments and advice please?[/quote]

How do you have the washer (120 volt) and the dryer (240 volt) on the same circuit? Did you split off of the 240 volt for the 120 volt for the washer?
This is a violation of the NEC. The washer and dryer need to be on separate circuits with each on it's own correctly sized breaker and correctly sized wire. Just because it has worked for 20 years does not make it right or safe.

Yes, you can use the existing cable to feed your new sub panel. It is 10/3 with ground. Four wires.
You will not need a main breaker in the sub panel if you keep the breakers to less than six. Meaning you can kill everything in the garage with six or less throws of the hand. If you move your dryer and washer out there, thats 3 breakers already not including what you plan to install. You should use a sub panel that will accommodate for now and the future.
You are not limited to 30 amps at the sub panel. But you must keep the 30 amp breaker for the feeder cable (10/3) in the main panel.
Keep neutrals and grounds separate. Do not use the neutral bonding screw that comes with the new panel. You also must ensure that the 10/3 cable is not subject to physical damage.

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Old 07-05-2008, 11:00 AM   #3
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


J.V. The op states in his post that the dryer is GAS.
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:36 PM   #4
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


Ah, that's correct theatretech85, gas. Goodness J.V. that was an awful that of typing that a little careful reading might have prevented.lol.
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:13 PM   #5
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


10/3 might do the job, though you might want to make a little room for expansion?

Last edited by rgsgww; 07-05-2008 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:00 PM   #6
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


Yeah,that's why I posted really. It's tempting to use the 30 amp and 10/3 because it's already there and not doing anything(seen the price of copper lately?) and it would be easy to pull it where I want it.Part of me says to go 50 amp,but I could do it easy enough later if I needed it,which I doubt. I have 100 amps in the barn which is not far and 200 in the house. I dont figure on a huge amount of electrical demand from this branch.
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:17 PM   #7
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Well and it sound like all your circuits will be single pole anyway, so long as you try and balance the loads out on the two poles in the panel, you should be fine. 30 amps per pole would mean you could put 4 15 amp breakers in there and have nothing to worry about. If you had 5 100 watt bulbs in your garage your only looking at about 4 amps, so not even close to the 15 amp max on your lighting circuit. Pond probably only takes maybe 2 amps, refrigerator would probably have the biggest current draw but still won't be that much; I think my small refrigerator is only 4-5 amps. I would personally want a 50 amp sub panel, but from the sounds of it, you will be more than fine with what you have there. If you overload it, worst case scenario it trips the breaker in the main panel; and sometimes that just means balancing the load out properly. Iv'e tripped the 100 amp mains at my house on more than one occasion, had to use the air compressor to cool the panel down enough to get the breaker to reset. In case anyone is wondering, it was about 120 amps worth of holiday lights, I was still working on balancing the load and it tripped. Once I balanced the load out between the two poles, everything was fine, didn't have any issues with tripping the mains after that.
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:21 PM   #8
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post


You will not need a main breaker in the sub panel if you keep the breakers to less than six. Meaning you can kill everything in the garage with six or less throws of the hand.
The garage is attached.... also, if you read any panel instructions, in order for it to qualify as Suitable for Service Equipment they require a main. just FYI. This of course is only for detached structures.

Last edited by chris75; 07-05-2008 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:39 PM   #9
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Chris,just to clarify,I dont need a main in the sub,correct? I was just going to do a lug panel.What do you think,is 30 amps going to be enough to do what I've described? Or should i just bite the bullet and pull 6#wire and go 50 amp? I'm beginning to lean that way.
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by white29 View Post
Chris,just to clarify,I dont need a main in the sub,correct? I was just going to do a lug panel.What do you think,is 30 amps going to be enough to do what I've described? Or should i just bite the bullet and pull 6#wire and go 50 amp? I'm beginning to lean that way.
Just go for 50 ampere....Then your ready for future devices or projects.
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:13 PM   #11
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


Quote:
Originally Posted by white29 View Post
Chris,just to clarify,I dont need a main in the sub,correct? I was just going to do a lug panel.What do you think,is 30 amps going to be enough to do what I've described? Or should i just bite the bullet and pull 6#wire and go 50 amp? I'm beginning to lean that way.

Main lug panel is all you need, and I would just go buy some aluminum wire and up the amperage... #4 AL. SER will get you to 65 amps...
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:16 PM   #12
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


The main disconnect rule is if you have 6 or less breakers a main is NOT needed. When you reach 7 circuits in that panel you then NEED a main breaker. Since this is an attached garage you have nothing to worry about. Honestly, from what I am hearing you want to do on this panel, I don't see why this would be a problem (30 amp service). With all your circuits being single pole, you really have 60 amps of power to deal with, just balance the loads out properly on the panel and you should be fine. Just don't put your lighting on one pole and all your outlets, refrigerator, and washer/dryer on the other pole. I'd say 15 amps for your lighting (pole 1), 20 amps for your outlet circuit (pole 2), refrigerator could be on its own circuit, but probably doesn't need to be 15amps (pole 2) washer/dryer 20 amps (pole 1).

You can always upgrade the cable to the panel and increase the service later if you need to. There would be no reason you couldn't use the same panel to go to 50 amps if your needs expand.
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
The main disconnect rule is if you have 6 or less breakers a main is NOT needed. When you reach 7 circuits in that panel you then NEED a main breaker.
Which is usually true till you read the directions that come with the panel...
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:40 PM   #14
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Sub panel for Garage /mudroom


Hate to sound like a "newbie", but what the heck is a "mudroom"? I envision large-breasted, scantilly-clad, female wrestlers. I have a hunch thats not what you're refering to.
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Artie2 View Post
Hate to sound like a "newbie", but what the heck is a "mudroom"? I envision large-breasted, scantilly-clad, female wrestlers. I have a hunch thats not what you're refering to.
Haha, no a "mudroom" is like a barrier between the living space of a house and the outside. Its a room where you would remove muddy shoes, keep all the dirt from being tracked throughout the house. Kinda like a foyer or entry way.

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