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Old 07-07-2013, 05:21 PM   #16
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sub panel changes


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Originally Posted by imawelder View Post
i have a tandem 20 amp breaker but thats only good for 120volts each leg.right now its sending 240 volts to the subpanel ]and so ill replace the 60 with a dual pole 20 amp,black and white as hot and it should be fine.right?.soon a seperat line to the garage will be added on its own 50 or 60 amp breaker and ill be set there.just need to figure out what to do about the subpanel in the closet.think i might eliminate it altogether and tie into existing circuits since all i need is a couple lights and a tv
I wrote the underline part any chance is that a GE panel ? I know they are famous for those small breakers do that kind function.

Merci,
Marc

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Last edited by frenchelectrican; 07-09-2013 at 12:14 AM. Reason: fix the goof
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:17 PM   #17
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sub panel changes


Quote:
Originally Posted by imawelder
i have a tandem 20 amp breaker but thats only good for 120volts each leg.right now its sending 240 volts to the subpanel and so ill replace the 60 with a dual pole 20 amp,black and white as hot and it should be fine.right?.soon a seperat line to the garage will be added on its own 50 or 60 amp breaker and ill be set there.just need to figure out what to do about the subpanel in the closet.think i might eliminate it altogether and tie into existing circuits since all i need is a couple lights and a tv
If that circuit is powering a subpanel, it should be black and red to the breaker, white to neutral, bare or green to ground. But a 20A circuit for a subpanel is way under powered. You should have 60A minimum with 6ga wire.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:09 AM   #18
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sub panel changes


its 12-2 to the subpanel in the bedroom.60 amp dual pole breaker from main.black and white are hot.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:03 AM   #19
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sub panel changes


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its 12-2 to the subpanel in the bedroom.60 amp dual pole breaker from main.black and white are hot.
Then how are you running 120 volt loads from that sub panel?
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:16 AM   #20
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sub panel changes


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Originally Posted by imawelder View Post
its 12-2 to the subpanel in the bedroom.60 amp dual pole breaker from main.black and white are hot.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:31 AM   #21
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sub panel changes


I'll admit I haven't been following.....but to properly feed a sub panel you need 3 wires plus a ground. Red and black on breaker, neutral to neutral bus bar, ground wire to ground bus bar.

And you are asking for a fire if you have 12/2 on a 60 amp breaker!
Obviously some changes need to be made
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:54 PM   #22
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I'll admit I haven't been following.....but to properly feed a sub panel you need 3 wires plus a ground. Red and black on breaker, neutral to neutral bus bar, ground wire to ground bus bar.

And you are asking for a fire if you have 12/2 on a 60 amp breaker!
Obviously some changes need to be made
Only need 3 wires plus ground if you are running 120 volt loads out of it.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by crazyboy

Only need 3 wires plus ground if you are running 120 volt loads out of it.
True, but not if you have black and white on a double pole breaker.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:20 PM   #24
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sub panel changes


it is black and white on douple pole 60 amp breaker leaving main panel.black and white into subpanel lugs.so that means its sending 240 vvolts to the subpanel in bedroom right.and only acually good for 20 amps since its 12 gauge.the tandem breaker i was talking about is not in the box its one i had laying around.i wanted to use it for the bedroom when i get rid of the sub in the closet.what a mess.i bought this house so all this was done by the previous owner.i think he just cut corners and used what he had to save money.i want to get it right and im on my own pretty much.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:30 PM   #25
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sub panel changes


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Originally Posted by imawelder
it is black and white on douple pole 60 amp breaker leaving main panel.black and white into subpanel lugs.so that means its sending 240 vvolts to the subpanel in bedroom right.and only acually good for 20 amps since its 12 gauge.the tandem breaker i was talking about is not in the box its one i had laying around.i wanted to use it for the bedroom when i get rid of the sub in the closet.what a mess.i bought this house so all this was done by the previous owner.i think he just cut corners and used what he had to save money.i want to get it right and im on my own pretty much.
So you're using the bare wire as a neutral?
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:34 PM   #26
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again, heres what im looking at.60 amp in main panel,fed a stove(not in use anymore),and unhooked from breaker.2 wires left are black and white(12 gauge)both hot feeding into sub panel in bedroom.a few receps and 2 lights on 15 amp breakers in sub.40 amp breaker also in bedroom sub that feeds to garage via 10-3.10-3 into 50 amp main in garage.2 15 amp breakers in garage panel for receps.one 20 amp breaker for 2 15 amp receps,and a 30 amp dual pole breaker(black and white hot) that was for a air compressor i think.not in usenow but still there.wtf??? now im getting worried.even my limited knowledge knows this is a big mess and i need to fix it asap.i figured i should start with a 20 amp in the main box to protect the 12-2.right?.untill i can get everything i need which wont be this week!!
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:35 PM   #27
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yes bare is nuetral.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by imawelder View Post
60 amp in main panel
2 wires left are black and white(12 gauge)both hot feeding into sub panel
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Originally Posted by imawelder View Post
yes bare is nuetral.
The 60 amp breaker could allow enough current to flow over 12 gauge wire to turn it red hot, melt the insullation and ignite anything it touches.

Using bare as neutral means return current is flowing over a non-insullated wire. Anyone toucing that wire will be shocked, and it could also heat up enough to cause a fire.

I might be a little paranoid, but if it were me, I would shut off the breaker to the sub panel immediately and not turn it back on unitl I know how to correctly size and wire the sub panel. This would involve understanding bonding and grounding requirements as well as load calculations for proper sizing of the feeder to the subpanel and all downstream power needs.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:35 PM   #29
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i want to eliminate the subpanel in my bedroom all together and have the garage feed come from main box via 6-3 on a 60 amp breaker.but time and money are the limiters!!
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:40 PM   #30
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well luckily the bedroom and garage only run a few lights,and a grinder and some small tools.the wire feed welder i run with the lights off cause i dont need them much curing the day.my big welder is a generator and its own power source.anyway,for now im going to take the 60 amp out and use a 20 to protect that 12gauge since it seems to be the weakest link in this mess.

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