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Old 08-09-2012, 12:45 AM   #16
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


Ok, after examining the photos, it seems something is amiss with the dining rm 3-ways.
If you look at the pics, one 3-way has black to common, and other red and black as travelers.
This should be correct. The confusion is at the 3-way dimmer, it is using one black for common (this is good), one red for traveler(this is good), and one white as 2nd traveler.... that is odd since the other 3-way shows no white connected to either traveler screw. To me i think you will find the answer at the dining room light.

Somewhere that white is connected to either a black or red wire.
Pull the dining room light down and photo the wires there. Try to get a good shot so we can see how many wires come into that box, and how they are wired together.

It is also odd that you clearly have 14/3 wire at both the kitchen and closet switches, but there is no white neutral there. They both seem to have power fed from the light box too. Which is the apparent "theme" in your wiring

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Old 08-09-2012, 06:41 AM   #17
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


Mizterz- the light in the dining room is a chandelier so it will be a small project to get down but I'll try the closet light first. Also the closet switch has a white it has just been cut so short and is left in the cable housing. I bought this house a month ago so everything seems to be weird. I will try and gets those pics asap.

Marc-there is a junction box above the kitchen switches. I'm going to take the plate off to show you how messey it is. This box is used for the pot lights in the kitchen so there is junctions left and right. Pic coming up
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:16 AM   #18
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


Here is the junction box. As you can see most are labled.

The one that is blank is just a green and blue piece of tape. The rest are labled as followed:

Kit Dim
Kit Recess
Din R
Din 2s "2" or "?"
"Pont" ?

I have no idea what the Pont means. The Din R and Din 2 I believe are the cultprets.

Any input would be great.
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:02 AM   #19
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


Im on my mobile so its hard to tell now. Dint bother removing dining rm lite yet.
We may be able to sort it out here.

Also, pont may be pant for "pantry" or in your case closet
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:46 PM   #20
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


it is very difficult to see where the wires run to and from.
if you could make a diagram of all incoming wires and where they are nutted together, this would be helpful.
it is my theory that either in the J-Box or at the dining room light they tapped into one of the traveler wires to power the closet light.

haha, one of us could have straightened this out in 30min if we were there.

i will continue investigations later
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:27 AM   #21
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by agodbout87 View Post
Here is the junction box. As you can see most are labled.

The one that is blank is just a green and blue piece of tape. The rest are labled as followed:

Kit Dim
Kit Recess
Din R
Din 2s "2" or "?"
"Pont" ?

I have no idea what the Pont means. The Din R and Din 2 I believe are the cultprets.

Any input would be great.
That photo did remind me very well with one of my customer from British they done simauir arrangment as well ( just leave this subject out of the window ATM.,, )

However let get back to the topic for a moment .,

The blank I will say that is a netural connection but I can not able confirm this due there is couple other white conductor is wired nutted with black conductor as well.

Do you have DVOM ( Digital Volt Ohm Meter ) ? if so that will really help alot to sort it out.

For now we leave the kitchen part alone we will deal with that later.

Let contracted on the dinning room part there is two spot where it was crossed connection so the moot point is where it the main power source is ?

That part I am pretty sure it is one of the two spots either at the switch or at the junction box this part you will need to use the DVOM to confirm on connection.

Sure either moi or Mr. Z can able sort it out very quick if we were at your place.

Again once we know which location have main source then we can go from there and also SVP take the photo of the luminaires both dinning room and the closet luminaire so we can able indentify the conductors colour so we can able figure it out from there.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:49 AM   #22
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


I have a DVM how do i use it to confirm?

Just disconnect and test?
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:47 PM   #23
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


what my friend is suggesting(i think) is to find the main source of power to the dining and closet lights/switches.
you're gonna need access to both luminaire wiring as well as the switches and J-box.

from what i can see at the J-box, which is not much, this appears to be where all the switch splicing occurs.
by that i mean there are only traveler wires and switched wires. i cant tell if there is any source power in that box.
my guess is that your source power comes into the lighting outlets first, then splices off to either the switches, J-box, or both.

there are two red wires for "Dining Rm S2", these are likely one traveler between the two 3-ways.
the nutted Black and White for "Dining Rm" is likely to be the other traveler between the 3-ways. you can see this in the earlier photos.
dimmer switch connects to a red and a white wire(travelers). other 3-way connects to a Red and a Black wire(travelers).
in the J-Box, one red from each 3-way is nutted on "Din 2s2" and White from dimmer, Black from 3-way are nutted on "Din R"

here is a simple question. are all these lights (kitchen recessed, closet, diing room) on the same circuit??
confirm which breaker cuts power to the dining room lights, then check to see if the other lights lose power too.

once you know which breaker controls these lghts, we can determine which switch/lighting outlet box gets power first.
things can get tricky from here, so make diagrams/label all wires that are getting disconnected.

after taking note of how things are wired, with power off separate and cap wires in the junction box.
for now leave the whites marked "blank" twisted and capped.
once everything is capped and safe to test, turn on breaker and test for voltage at j-box.
odds are that the main source of power will be on a black wire. this is not guaranteed, but thats where i would start.

turn on volt meter and set it to 200v A/C or higher.
with the volt meter take the black probe and make contact with ONLY the bare copper wires.
the red probe touch the copper on each colored wire individually.
only one should be HOT if any. if you do get a reading, tell us what it was and which wire.

if there is no voltage at the j-box, move on to the light outlets and repeat procedure.

i hate to ask, but upload wiring photos of the light boxes too
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:06 AM   #24
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


OK so after some exploration and having to reset the breaker a couple times. I discovered that the blank green is for the light in the closet and that pont actually means pantry. So now. I disconnected that white from the other two blanks. The light in the dining room works fine but since the white is disconnected the closet light does not work. How should I connect this white?
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:18 PM   #25
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


when you say "Blank" im guesing you mean the wires labeled Blank in the j-box

those wires are likely Neutrals for the lights. by removing the Neutral you made an incomplete circuit for that light.
however, im willing to bet the closet switch still gets power. you can verify this with the volt meter.
essentially all you did was "break" the connection for the light, but really didnt solve anything.

put the white wire back on with the others, disconnect and cap both wires (Red and Black) in J-box that reads "Pant".
turn the breaker back on and check for voltage at either of these wires. let us know which has power going to it.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:20 PM   #26
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


The red seems yo have the power. By seems I mean it shows the most numbers. my equipment is from my dad and is old it Dosent have specific setting so j just set it to VAC. It shows a the most reading son the red wire
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:19 PM   #27
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.


this is what i expected. the Red wire should be the hot, and the Black feeds power to the closet switch.
there is no guarantee thats the way it actually is. without confirming thru continuity this is just speculation.
i should have had you test that red wire with dining room switch in different positions to see if it loses power.
if it does you'll need to trace this Red wire back to its origin.

i was looking over the different angles you took of the closet switch.
it looks as tho the Red wire there is twisted with another Red wire... am i seeing that right??
there should be no other wires connected to the Red at the light switch. it should go directly to the light.

Trying to trace the wires from your photos.... somethimg still is not right.
I think you need to do continuity test between the switches and the j-box.
These connections do not add up.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:09 PM   #28
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Strange Wiring Problem in my dining room.




Now that is getting odd each time we peel off each layer but we will get there.

Mr Z is correct the only way you can sort it out is ring each on out and also again check the luminarie to see if you have actual white conductor in there and again svp take a photo I have a feeling they left the netural alone for some reason but used the hot conductor for other purpose,..

So therefore when you did disconnect the closet luminiare the dinning room lumiaire work properly so you will have to find a unswitched hot and reconnect in properly way.

Merci,
Marc

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