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Old 06-05-2012, 05:36 PM   #31
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String and then !/2" rope to pull 4#4 thhns. Other conduit,a 4 pair Phone line. They went.

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Old 06-05-2012, 07:40 PM   #32
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Is it ever a problem that the pulled cable is overstressed and so becomes work-hardened, slightly and permanently stretched, and brittle?

Are there rules of thumb to prevent this?
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:48 PM   #33
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Fiber Optics,yes.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:31 PM   #34
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Is it ever a problem that the pulled cable is overstressed and so becomes work-hardened, slightly and permanently stretched, and brittle?

Are there rules of thumb to prevent this?
Yes, every wire has a maximum pulling tension, this is why you have multiple pull boxes and minimum size required conduits... You can find these values I'm sure with google... The distance the OP went is unheard of around here...
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:31 PM   #35
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The POCO will make the final call which voltage they will use and I know the 7.2 KV and 13.8 or 14.2 KV is common one and they can be either line to line or line to netural depending on which grid they will tie to it.

Yeah expect to see some water in the conduit that is typical but you will need a tow behind air compressor to blow it out but let me give you a serious warning do not open the air valve super fast otherwise you will blow the plastique pipe apart so instead of that just ramp it up slow then crank it up and make sure there is no one standing on the opposite end of that conduit in case water or debries can fly out.

Bon Chance with your project.

Merci,
Marc
Thanks for all of the replies folks!


I'm 100% certain the outside shielding on the coax is neutral/ground with only one hot in the center. Not that it really matters other than I'm curious but does this mean the voltage is most likely 7.2 KV or there abouts?

Is it my responisibility to blow out the conduit? The power company never said anything about that part. I guess I better check before I call them out. Does it matter to them if the conduit has water in it while they are pulling?

I heard looking in the end of the conduit for the string while blowing the water out was the newbie's job.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:36 PM   #36
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Is it ever a problem that the pulled cable is overstressed and so becomes work-hardened, slightly and permanently stretched, and brittle?

Are there rules of thumb to prevent this?
Yes. Which is why my Greenlee tugger has a meter on it for monitoring the pull.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:40 PM   #37
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Are you going with a pad mount transformer or a pole mounted transformer. What do they do with the cable between pull points install a pull box with manhole cover?
It will be a pad mount transformer. They treat the pull points just like a transformer site. Once I level the ground up and lay down a gravel base they bring a 6" thick precast concrete pad that has the same dimentions as a transformer pad. On top of this pad is a green plastic enclosure I believe.

What is cool about this setup is if I ever want to build a powered structure close to a pull point they just get rid of the plastic cover and install another transformer at the pull point/junction box.

Here is a pic of a junction box/pull point. The right duct goes towards the hill I'm working on right now. The left one continues the feed towards the barn. The orange cover is to keep rattlers and mice out of the conduits as this is a weekend only project. You can see the red THHN pull leader sticking out of my phone conduit.

Starting down the big hill-p2260006.jpg
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:44 PM   #38
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How deep is that trench? looks awful shallow.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:53 PM   #39
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Fiber Optics,yes.
This is the industry that I work in and it's soooo frustrating not to be able to use it.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:55 PM   #40
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How deep is that trench? looks awful shallow.
Stickboy.,

If you did look at the photo there is a conventail 90 degree ell ( if you did see in the background then the bigger three inch is a wide sweep that is not the same as convential ell is.

IIRC the 3 inch PVC wide sweep is 36 inches high if you mesure bottom of the sweep to the top of the sweep so the OP is pretty much at 24 inches I will let the OP confirm this part to make sure.

In my neck of woods in Wisconsin if conduit with primary cable the shallowest they will allow is 2.5 feet but typically 3 to 5 feet down espcally with direct burial cable it will be more deeper toward to 5 feet marking.

In France it always more than 1 meter deep typically 1.5 meter deep unless you have a cable is not a SWA ( steel wire amoured ) type it have to be at least 2 meter deep.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:16 PM   #41
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How deep is that trench? looks awful shallow.
I need to do a bit of explaining on this one.

The power conduit almost immediately tapers down to about 3' deep (30" minumum) and the phone conduit is only about 12 to 18" deep at this point. To the right just out of the picture the phone conduit tapers down to the depth of the power conduit. When I first started this project I was told that phone service wouldn't be available but they were very nice and gave me a free roll of direct burial wire just in case it became available in the future. My plan was to just lay it in the trench about 18" down thinking I would never get a chance to use it. Then I started thinking about all of the rocks and gnawing animals and thought how stupid this was so I decided to run it in conduit.

Since I started out with only a power conduit I chose to use a 12" bucket. Luckily, I left 18” depth of trench open for laying the wire in so when I changed my mind about the conduit I didn’t have to dig anything back up as I never installed the wire yet. When I started laying the phone conduit I realized that I was doing double the work. Making a nice smooth bed for the conduit twice at 2 different levels and making sure the soil was compacted vertically between the conduits so the top conduit wouldn’t be damaged from settling. Then I got the bright idea to switch to a 24” bucket and lay both conduits in the bottom and be done with it. The hoe digs a 24” trench just as fast as a 12” trench and things are going much faster now. I’m finding other advantages with the wider trench as well but this is getting too wordy.

Fast forward one year later. I received an e-mail from the phone company a few weeks ago saying that the railroad granted permission to cross their tracks with the phone wire. Originally it was thought that the very old poles were only high enough for the power wires and no utilities. I was one happy camper to hear that all of this extra work wasn’t in vain. But if I hadn’t of buried the extra conduit I would have felt horrible. Today and tomorrow there is a crew on location stringing a phone line across the tracks and a 100’ wide river.

Ohhhhhh! I'm such a slow typer. Here is a pic of my 36" radius sweeps that Frenchie mentioned.

Starting down the big hill-p5160024.jpg

Last edited by zappa; 06-05-2012 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:40 AM   #42
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Power company around here would never let that distance fly, they would require a few pull boxes.
I forgot to mention that an engineer from the power company designed this run onsite and there are no other options for different routes. I wonder though, what would be the outcome and who is responsible if they can't make the pull?
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:32 PM   #43
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I forgot to mention that an engineer from the power company designed this run onsite and there are no other options for different routes. I wonder though, what would be the outcome and who is responsible if they can't make the pull?
I dont understand why he wouldn't want a pull box, the pulling tension alone on the wire is going to be ridiculous.... plus ordering ONE cut of wire, etc, etc... i see no benefit of making this run continuous.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:43 PM   #44
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I dont understand why he wouldn't want a pull box, the pulling tension alone on the wire is going to be ridiculous.... plus ordering ONE cut of wire, etc, etc... i see no benefit of making this run continuous.
There are going to be 3 pulls, 400', 500', and 900'. It is impossible to get the wire truck and pull truck any closer than 900'. I suppose if all else fails another pull point could be installed half way down the hill but they would have to somehow hand carry the wire to the location and use a portable puller. I'm not sure if they are set up for this, and if they are, it would possibly be a last resort.

This is a killer steep hill and it gets so narrow that the wheels of my hoe will barely fit on the trail that has a near vertical 20' drop off on one side. Even with both rear wheels locked and driving the back hoe can't make it up this hill without loosing traction, so taking any sort of truck down there is not an option. I'm not even sure if I will have enough room for the spoils. I may have to switch back to the 12" bucket which will really suck.

Quite honestly, I think the wire will almost pull itself down the hill and I'm more worried about the 500' pull which was just plain ugly trying to get through the 2 creeks digging blind through muddy water and muck.

Last edited by zappa; 06-06-2012 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:28 AM   #45
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I would bet that the engineer knows they can do it if they approved this.

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