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-   -   Stabing back of receptacles in cook county IL (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/stabing-back-receptacles-cook-county-il-53326/)

Redrock 09-18-2009 05:08 PM

Stabing back of receptacles in cook county IL
 
Is it code in Cook County or DuPage County IL to secure connection to switches or receptacles buy stabbing the back. I am hearing different answers from different electricians. Trying to clear it up.

Thanks

Scuba_Dave 09-18-2009 05:09 PM

Contact your local building Dept to find out
I'd never use the back stabs, even if it is allowed

Yoyizit 09-18-2009 05:54 PM

The kind with spring-loaded contacts seem to have contact impedance problems. The kind that have holes in the back but are tightened down with screws should be alright.

From http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/52...scription.html

"To this end, electrical receptacles are typically equipped with both binding head screw terminals and back-wire push-in (BWPI) terminals where the bared ends of solid wire line and neutral conductors are inserted through back openings in the receptacle case and into electrical contacting engagement with resilient prongs. Since BWPI terminations do not grip the conductor wire as securely as binding head screw terminations, they can be disturbed as the wired receptacle is mounted in a outlet box."

This one
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/mee...oplastics2.pdf
is worded more strongly.

Quiz question: based on the conduct of the CPSC/UL in this memo, do you believe they are described by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
?

Speedy Petey 09-18-2009 06:22 PM

I completely agree. Even if it is code, WHY would you want to do it? Especially in your own house. :huh:

Redrock 09-18-2009 07:09 PM

Thanks for the replies.
I don't stab the back, I am just trying to clear this up over the weekend. I have gotten advice from a couple of different electricians and want to know who knows what they are talking about.

frenchelectrican 09-18-2009 09:27 PM

I useally use the screw or backwired devices that is diffrent than backstabbed connections and IIRC most code are restricted with only #14 being used not the #12 at all.

With #12 best bet is do the screw on or backwired both work well if done properly.

Merci,Marc

jbfan 09-18-2009 09:33 PM

Are you using solid or stranded wire in the conduit?
Stranded can not be used to back stab.
Weather the ahj allows it or not is another matter, but the nec allows it.
I use the screws, but it is allowed.

J. V. 09-19-2009 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrock (Post 329441)
Thanks for the replies.
I don't stab the back, I am just trying to clear this up over the weekend. I have gotten advice from a couple of different electricians and want to know who knows what they are talking about.

Either is allowed so all of them are right. :laughing:
When a contractor has a guy installing 100's of switches and receptacles, how do you think he would install them? Back stab or screw?

Yoyizit 09-19-2009 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. V. (Post 329651)
When a contractor has a guy installing 100's of switches and receptacles, how do you think he would install them? Back stab or screw?

Pay me now or pay me later:laughing:
Actually, it's that you pay the contractor now and then you might pay again later to replace all these little muvvas.

To be fair, I guess the failure rate of the back stabbers and the regulars should be compared. Any electricians care to supply some numbers from their personal experience?

The problem with an Internet search is that no one reports when their outlets of either type are not catching fire.

Scuba_Dave 09-19-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchelectrican (Post 329496)
I useally use the screw or backwired devices that is diffrent than backstabbed connections and IIRC most code are restricted with only #14 being used not the #12 at all.

With #12 best bet is do the screw on or backwired both work well if done properly.

Merci,Marc

I have not seen a #12 back stab outlet in a while (if ever?)
I bought the heavier duty 20a outlets & they do not have back stab
So I think you are right & only #14 15a circuits can have this
Then of course IMO the question is if it isn't "safe" for 12g why should I think it's safe for 14g ?

frenchelectrican 09-19-2009 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave (Post 329676)
I have not seen a #12 back stab outlet in a while (if ever?)
I bought the heavier duty 20a outlets & they do not have back stab
So I think you are right & only #14 15a circuits can have this
Then of course IMO the question is if it isn't "safe" for 12g why should I think it's safe for 14g ?


Dave.,

Sorry let me make it clear the #12 back stabbed receptales are not used any more due the code change in few code cycle back and I know the switch can be but not anymore due most manufacter got smart with it.

The other issue with backstabbing recepteale when you push it back in the box the conductors can put odd pressure on the spring concats if done right it may barely hold in place.

I have done replaceing alot of backstabbers both receptale and yes switch verison from time to time the conductors actally do come out without any effort.

While we are on the topic related with #12 the other issue with backstabbers that they are not very well functioned with stranded conductors { just trust me on that one you will never get all the strands in the backstabber no matter if you have either #12 or #14 they just simplely get all kinked up but for backwire that no issue }

And what I heard the UL test it and they were not too pleased with the result and they did documented with electrical fire from backstabbed recetptales { just try that with Alum wire that will really compound it I allready see few really do wonderfull damage there }

That why they { the UL } change it and the manufacter have no choice but follow it.

Merci,Marc

{Note to readers this part I know some electricians do use the backstabbers the biggest issue is the time espcally with tract homes aka cheap built }

300zx 09-19-2009 01:40 PM

I use the screws on #14 and #12 .I have seen alot of wires stabed in that come off. The UL link go down to TERMINALS http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/t...975&sequence=1 +Plugs&objid=1074120002&cfgid=1073741824&version=v ersionless&parent_id=1073992975&sequence=1

Yoyizit 09-19-2009 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchelectrican (Post 329681)
The other issue with backstabbing recepteale when you push it back in the box the conductors can put odd pressure on the spring concats if done right it may barely hold in place.

I have done replaceing alot of backstabbers both receptale and yes switch verison from time to time the conductors actally do come out without any effort.

While we are on the topic related with #12 the other issue with backstabbers that they are not very well functioned with stranded conductors { just trust me on that one you will never get all the strands in the backstabber no matter if you have either #12 or #14 they just simplely get all kinked up but for backwire that no issue }

I can't imagine stranded conductors working with this type of connection. Of the CM available to contact, you might get less than half.

So, off the top of your head, Si vous s'il vous plaît, for every receptacle you replace in the US, how many are backstabbers?
A ratio of 1:1 for regular:backs? 1:5?
And how many total replaced?

http://www.oddcast.com/demos/tts/tts...le.php?clients

frenchelectrican 09-19-2009 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoyizit (Post 329690)
I can't imagine stranded conductors working with this type of connection. Of the CM available to contact, you might get less than half.

So, off the top of your head, Si vous s'il vous plaît, for every receptacle you replace in the US, how many are backstabbers?
A ratio of 1:1 for regular:backs? 1:5?
And how many total replaced?

http://www.oddcast.com/demos/tts/tts...le.php?clients

For service call it is too many to count the backstabbers are fuber'ed after all the years it become a second nature to find it pretty fast once you know where to look for.

I will say about one out of 4 damaged recetpales I been replaceing that have back stabbers { this is on resdentail side }

Commercal side most likey worn out or unqualified dolts mess around with the connection on the receptale espcally with MWBC { there is a golden rules with MWBC never .,,, never.,, disconect the netural unless you verify all the affected MWBC is complety disconnected }

Once a while I get overheated receptale this is true in office space when the heating system is on and keep the office space room tempture pretty low on purpose to keep the heating cost down and quite few peoples bring the portable electric heater and that useally a done deal with overheat recepatales.

Merci,Marc

Merci,Marc

Yoyizit 09-19-2009 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchelectrican (Post 329766)
I will say about one out of 4 damaged recetpales I been replaceing that have back stabbers { this is on resdentail side }

This says that the resi. backstabbers are 3x as reliable as the others. How can that be?


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