Was Splicing To Knob And Tube Outside A Junction Box Ever Legal? - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


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Old 01-26-2011, 08:47 AM   #1
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Was splicing to knob and tube outside a junction box ever legal?


From my other thread, I think I figured out a way to terminate an older wire in a junction box that will be accessible, but personally my concern with a splice outside a junction box will remain:



I intend to deal with this by updating more wiring at a later date, but for the time being I need to pass rough inspection on what I have rewired. The inspector will be out this afternoon and I will bring this up with him whether it means he fails the inspection again or not, I just want to know ahead of time if this was at one time a legitimate splice that might be grandfathered?

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Old 01-26-2011, 08:59 AM   #2
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Was splicing to knob and tube outside a junction box ever legal?


In the heyday of knob and tube wiring, it was customary to make splices out in the open. They may stay that way today. When soldered which was also the rule, they will not come apart unless overheated due to overload and pennies under the fuse, also common at that time.

Nowadays you may not extend a K&T circuit so the need to splice onto it should be rare if at all. Nowadays you may not create a splice where none was before, except in a covered and accessible junction box.

If the inspector determines that the splice was created after the accessible box rule went into effect, he may fail it. K&T wiring is stretched taut and it does not touch the wood, hence the need for the T (tubes). In addition, twisting wires together with no solder and no compression device such as a wire nut is not considered a good connection.

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Old 01-26-2011, 09:13 AM   #3
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Was splicing to knob and tube outside a junction box ever legal?


Okay I think that's what I needed. I get what is acceptable practice in new construction, and I would strongly prefer to get my house to that level of robustness, but I also have to keep the work broken down into manageable chunks.

What is shown is where an old 2-conductor (i.e. no ground) cloth romex wire spliced into knob and tube. The cloth romex went to a duplex receptacle that I have removed, and the second floor location of the receptacle has been made inaccessible. I can put in an old work box in the first floor ceiling so I can terminate the wire in a junction box, but the splice to KT outside of a junction box will remain.

The circuit this KT was on is apparently the circuit that must have been for the whole house, the main panel calls it the upstairs circuit, but at this point it is carrying a flourescent light in the kitchen, a flourescent light in the dining room, a CFL in the bedroom, a CFL in the laundry room, the disposal in the kitchen, a light over the sink in the kitchen, a 4 bulb fixture in the bathroom and a CFL outdoors. I think with all of these on minus the disposal it comes to around 3 amps, and we have a GFCI and a momentary switch on the disposal.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:26 PM   #4
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Was splicing to knob and tube outside a junction box ever legal?


That is common for K&T set up like that as long it is not mess around the inspector will pretty much leave it alone under grandfather clause but to extend it .,, automatique no on that one.

As long you let the inspector know about this and you plan to remove it at later date that is fine.

However let me warn ya if you run into three way switch on T&K set up prepare for some crazy connections if you do run into it is a good time to get rid of it.

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Old 01-26-2011, 01:37 PM   #5
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Was splicing to knob and tube outside a junction box ever legal?


Oh yeah, I ran into that on the stairway. I did completely remove and replace that setup. I even replaced the stud wall it was running through because the studs were turned 90 degrees from normal construction, holes were actually bored through the 4" dimension of the 2x4 for the tubes!!!

In fact, I still have one of the studs I tore out for that. Picture posted below. Is this really as crazy as it seems to me, or do I just lack the perspective of anyone that can say from experience that they don't build them like they used to?
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:43 PM   #6
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Was splicing to knob and tube outside a junction box ever legal?


Quote:
Originally Posted by WillK View Post
Oh yeah, I ran into that on the stairway. I did completely remove and replace that setup. I even replaced the stud wall it was running through because the studs were turned 90 degrees from normal construction, holes were actually bored through the 4" dimension of the 2x4 for the tubes!!!

In fact, I still have one of the studs I tore out for that. Picture posted below. Is this really as crazy as it seems to me, or do I just lack the perspective of anyone that can say from experience that they don't build them like they used to?
I have see it before with they bore thru the long part of the stud and they do that and it was pretty common in old days to turn it 90 like that to maxized the room demension due the old lath et plaster wall set up.

It was pretty good pain in ase to get the new junction box install in those narrow walls like that.

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Old 01-26-2011, 01:50 PM   #7
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Was splicing to knob and tube outside a junction box ever legal?


Been there on that one too, I have a 2 gang box in a shallow wall cavity which is the only one I didn't rebuild, and it's also the only one I worked on that didn't have another wall right behind it, so finding a 2 gang box that fit was difficult and the inspector didn't like the one I picked so that was one of the corrections I had to do.

Even crazier, all this work I'm doing will be torn out in a few years when I have the second floor remodelled. But I got the house cheap, and I wanted to get a lot done to make it safe to live in until we pay off the land contract.

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