Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-14-2011, 01:42 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Question

splicing electrical


I'm remodeling the bathroom in my 1954 house and I need to move a light fixture in around 16" to the left so it will be centered over my vanity. I want to install a new box on the stud where the light will go and splice the wiring from the original source. The wiring coming out of the original box don't have a ground wire. I will use romex with a ground wire to make the splice. Do I just ground the ground wire somewhere in the original box then connect the other end of the ground to the ground wire in the light? Or can I ground it somewhere in the new box? (see image)
Attached Thumbnails
splicing electrical-splice.jpg  

sparky74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 02:13 PM   #2
Scared Electrician
 
Saturday Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 715
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


remember that your splice must remain accessible. Are the boxes metal? if so yes you can ground it to the box.

__________________
Ragged Trousered Philanthropist


Please follow the code - its there for your safety no matter how inconvenient.
Saturday Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 02:16 PM   #3
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


if there is no ground to the original box, you cannot legally extend the circuit. If there is a ground to the original box, then go ahead and connect the new ground wire to the existing ground in the old box.



and you will have to use a blank cover on the old box so it remains accessible. You can paint over it if you want but you cannot cover the box any more than that.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to nap For This Useful Post:
Jim Port (04-14-2011)
Old 04-14-2011, 02:59 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


What if I just bypass the whole ground issue. There is no ground coming from the old box so does a ground have to be there at all? The light fixture has a small ground wire coming out of it and a blue screw that you screw it into on the base of the fixture.
sparky74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 03:56 PM   #5
Scared Electrician
 
Saturday Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 715
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


nice try. But that screw can only be used if it is grounded by being screwed to a metal box
__________________
Ragged Trousered Philanthropist


Please follow the code - its there for your safety no matter how inconvenient.
Saturday Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 04:02 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


I mean since there is no ground coming from the main in the basement, and I'm only using a 16" piece of cable, how critical is the small section of cable being grounded. The original light wasn't grounded and it's been installed for about 5 yrs. What if I just snipped off the exposed ground wires and only attached the black and whites?
sparky74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 06:16 PM   #7
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


all I can say is the code does not allow you to extend a circuit that does not have a ground.

Especially in a bathroom, grounds are very important. If the hot wire shorted out to the light frame, it would not cause the breaker to trip. Then, if you touched the light and a ground source at the same time, you are now in circuit with the short circuit. Now a good place to be.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 07:44 PM   #8
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,154
Rewards Points: 62
Default

splicing electrical


Easier just pulling all new wiring, since this house was built in 1954, and would not be code for today's standards. If you have the walls down to the studs, just pull #12 for the outlets, and same for the lights if running off of the same circuit as the outlets. I kept my lights on a separate circuit from my outlet service in my bathroom, since I wanted to keep it simple, and if the GFCI trips, the lights would not go out.
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 05:31 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap
all I can say is the code does not allow you to extend a circuit that does not have a ground.

Especially in a bathroom, grounds are very important. If the hot wire shorted out to the light frame, it would not cause the breaker to trip. Then, if you touched the light and a ground source at the same time, you are now in circuit with the short circuit. Now a good place to be.
Isn't that a ground fault? A short would trip a functioning breaker.
FutureSparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 05:42 PM   #10
Scared Electrician
 
Saturday Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 715
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


its not a ground fault if its not grounded in fact its not even a fault. This is where it can fail and the breaker will never open. If the hot wire becomes abbraided and contacts the metal frame of the light fixture, there is no circuit path (because it is not bonded) and no current flows (except that used by the light bulb) until some thing or more likely someone completes the circuit. If you were to try and replace a light bulb or just reach up and touch it you could be shocked. NOW this is even more of a problem in a bathroom, because you are likely to be wet which will reduce your resistance to the flow of electricity which means more current will hit you increasing your risk of death (quite a bit).

and for whats its worth a ground fault will also trip a properly functioning breaker.
__________________
Ragged Trousered Philanthropist


Please follow the code - its there for your safety no matter how inconvenient.

Last edited by Saturday Cowboy; 04-15-2011 at 05:45 PM.
Saturday Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 06:27 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


Ah I see. I remember a ground fault being defined as unwanted current to ground which I thought this would be as a shock would occur if someone touched the frame touching the hot like you said. The current would return through you grounding the circuit thus giving it a return (hot through you through ground to panel) but does this whole house have no ground?

Also a ground fault would trip a breaker once someone completes the circuit (touch it grounded), right? I didn't think it would trip a breaker without a GFCI if say a metal frame was energized until someone touched it.
FutureSparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 06:40 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada (s/w ON.)
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


How about if he used a GFCI receptacle in the original box and wired to the light from the load side of the receptacle?

Last edited by Wildie; 04-15-2011 at 07:13 PM.
Wildie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 06:42 PM   #13
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,858
Rewards Points: 4
Default

splicing electrical


These guys are all telling you the right way to do it by code. Since there is no code here, I would do it the way you suggested. That is the way it would have been done for many years and it worked fine.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 06:55 PM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


All it takes is one shock to do damage. The code is in place for safety. I wonder if putting a GFCI in the old box and running the light off that would be acceptable?
FutureSparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 07:12 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada (s/w ON.)
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 0
Default

splicing electrical


Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureSparky View Post
All it takes is one shock to do damage. The code is in place for safety. I wonder if putting a GFCI in the old box and running the light off that would be acceptable?
Thats two of us, of the same mind! (post#12)

Wildie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ground, splicing, wire, wiring


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Bathroom - all electrical on one circuit? how to change? Steve19 Electrical 16 03-14-2011 09:32 AM
Electrical Questions from a Foreigner mark_anderson_u Electrical 4 09-10-2010 06:46 AM
Changing from Electrical Cook Top to Electrical Range EkS Electrical 24 06-22-2010 10:43 AM
Electrical box replace,addiitions, city permits and looking for an electrician ramchy Electrical 3 08-02-2009 11:12 AM
Splicing Wires in Electrical Breaker Panel airdaleairdale Electrical 14 06-11-2009 07:20 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.